Nope. Like Ryan says, larping culture is sufficiently advanced that players create great costumes and roleplaying moments just because.
Not having the cool threads where people compliment each other’s costumes and roleplay? They make for nice warm fuzzies.
Shouldn’t think you need to reward XP in order to encourage those threads though, you could just start a thread about favourite costume and a thread about favourite roleplaying moments and folks would post anyhow.
Personally speaking, I find the possibility of gaining an XP bonus through RP an excellent motivator - it helps encourage me (a strong introvert) to keep putting my character into intense situations in a LARP, particularly when I’m feeling tired/exhausted/drained/etc… - risk/reward, or something like that.
Admittedly, not really for costume - RP is a spontaneous creative process during a LARP (i.e. during time when one is able to focus entirely on LARPing), whereas costume is something that must be done in one’s “free time” - competing against other interests, commitments, and time. It’s a lot easier, in some ways, to spontaneously step up one’s RP, than it is to spontaneously step up one’s costume, in my humble opinion. That’s not to say I don’t spend time and effort working on my props & costume to help reflect my character, that’s just to say XP isn’t a motivator for it.
However, note I say “bonus” XP - I (again, my personal opinion) don’t feel that RP (or costume, for that matter) “award” XP should be the entirety of XP earned, nor that it should even be a significant proportion thereof. Even a 1 XP bonus on top of the theoretically awarded flat XP would serve (for me) its motivating purpose, it won’t unbalance the game due to it’s minimal short term effect (you can’t by much for 1 XP), over the long term it can offer extra options for character skill development.
Just thought it was worth mentioning that there was at least one semi-newbie out there that was, in fact, motivated to a degree by an XP carrot.
All views, opinions, and other assorted drivel expressed in this post are only intended to express me as an individual, and not LARPers as a whole.
Like, PM someone “Hey, you really didn’t participate that much, don’t be shy next time, come and talk to people!”?
The only problem is, if they don’t interact with people, how would people know they are there?
I’m confused 
[/quote]
Well, it’s potentially a problem if you play the silent type sitting in the corner.
But the point of ASKING for feedback is that you give other people permission to make comments. Because I know that I’m always willing to give compliments, but reluctant to give criticism unless I’m sure it is wanted. It might not be wise to give all and sundry permission to critique, but it should be possible to find people who you think you interacted with and ask their opinion. You just have to to take the bad with the good.
But I do think it’s also a responsibility for the more gregarious larpers to drag other people into the game. Something that Bryn said to me has stuck, and I TRY to implement it. Basically, he said that if you can drag someone else into your plot/game then do it. If you have to get a message to someone, then ask someone else to do it, rather than doing it yourself. Send someone else out to help a friend, rather than doing it yourself. It seriously makes someone feel special that you think of them and get them involved. Mind you, they might have their own stuff going on and say no. But that just means that they are into the game. So yay!
As a new player I suspect it is more important to get feedback. I know I didn’t interact with as many people as I could have.
So I will happily put out the official invitation. Please PM with with any and all feedback, any ideas, brickbats and bouquets welcome regarding my input into the game. Have recently completed courses on accepting feedback and critisism so don’t hold back 
Not having the cool threads where people compliment each other’s costumes and roleplay? They make for nice warm fuzzies.
Shouldn’t think you need to reward XP in order to encourage those threads though, you could just start a thread about favourite costume and a thread about favourite roleplaying moments and folks would post anyhow.[/quote]
If anyone doubts that, we can just point them to the Chimera forum.
You are such a lawyer! 
There is a dark side to it. People who aren’t mentioned on those threads will possibly feel much worse than just from getting not enough XP, because XPs are awarded privately, and if you didn’t do well you don’t need to tell anyone. Threads are public, and when you see other people praised and you are not even mentioned, it’s really depressing and demotivating.
Btw, I have just tried to go start a “favourite costume” thread on Teonn forum and decided not to… because if I mention too many it loses it’s value, and if just a few I’m scared to upset those I didn’t mention. Too hard
Sorry, I can’t quite agree with it. It’s a responsibility of crew to do that, they are there to bring the plot to life, and while crewing I’m happy to go do it, either by GMs directions or just because I hang around and see some player shying in the corner, and I can go talk to them or drag them to dance, or whatever. I think it’s different for players, because they all have their own plots, and the term possibility works better than responsibility. If I am a player and I see a chance to involve some shy newbie into stuff I do - I’ll do it. If I’m doing my own plot and I can notice a shy newbie being somewhere around, but I’d have to go out of my way (the way of my plot that is) to get them involved - probably nope.
Yeah I would have to agree with Joker and disagree with you Aiwe but it’s just my personal opinion of course.
The crew can certainly do this, and if they are doing it (as you obviously are) then great , but they are often in for certain scenes and then out again. they are not around those other PCs all the time. And when they are there they may be playing an NPC that would have no reason at all to interact with certain PCs.
PCs often get more opportunity over a weekend game to draw other PCs in. I go into LARPs thinking if I can make the game cooler for the people around me, through costume, cool interactions, getting them involved in stuff, then it will create some good karma and hopefully make those people want to do the same. I find it’s when people are trying to make the whole game better that it gets really good.
For instance it can be something really minor, like asking someone to do you this important favour that can make a character feel like they are involved in a scene or asking them something about their past that can make a character feel like others care. I am happy to go further in that if you want to do something to my character that may not be in my best interests, I will go with it happily if it’s a good scene or really adds to your characters experience. Then i often find those players will pay that back whether in the same game or another.
Oh, absolutely, I’m not arguing with that:
I am just very disturbed by the word “responsibility” appearing in this context. It implies “you have to do that, you have obligations”, and that kills the fun. I’m larping for the fun of it in the first place, and I don’t wanna be hold responsible for someone else not having fun just because I didn’t do anything to drag them into interactions.
I actually like your idea about more possibilities for PCs to involve other PCs. Makes sense. But I still think it should be a possibility rather than responsibility.
I should probably add that this is all total IMHO 
[quote=“Aiwe”]Oh, absolutely, I’m not arguing with that:
I am just very disturbed by the word “responsibility” appearing in this context. It implies “you have to do that, you have obligations”, and that kills the fun. I’m larping for the fun of it in the first place, and I don’t wanna be hold responsible for someone else not having fun just because I didn’t do anything to drag them into interactions.
I actually like your idea about more possibilities for PCs to involve other PCs. Makes sense. But I still think it should be a possibility rather than responsibility.
I should probably add that this is all total IMHO [/quote]
Well, it’s all opinions. Hence I’m sorry if the word “responsibility” causes offense. I think it’s more accurate to say that I will regard it as MY responsibility to try to bring other people in.
Other people’s responsibilities as regards LARP are up to them. Nobody’s sitting around judging anyone. We’re all too busy for that.
Nope. Like Ryan says, larping culture is sufficiently advanced that players create great costumes and roleplaying moments just because.[/quote]
Seriously - I’m so into costuming now that I’m just grateful to have an outlet!
Such an interesting topic. In spite of my opinions I still am not completely polarised
My first thought is about the band that has been set by the Teonn GM’s and the reaction to it. I know they stated it was a 1-6 curve, but the reality is more like 3-6. If the scale follows some sort of increasing rewards then you can safely assume that one point represents turning up to the weekend, and effectively sitting in corner dressed in regular clothes not engaging with anyone.
So if you put some costume (any effort) on, and talk to a few people and engage with the weekend, which it must be said should be everyone you can expect at least 3 xp.
Add another each for exceptional costume and RP, and perhaps another for driving plot, creation of plot that involves many, and you could get to 6
So I think any argument that points to the unfairness of 1-2 points over people getting 3-6 and the in game benefits there are for that seems far fetched because it wont be the norm. What should be under discussion is the average or median and possibly the attainability of the upper rewards.
I think at its core xp awards is not just a measure of how more capable a character has got over the course of a period of time. At its core it is reward for the players as much as the character. And as such I believe it should reflect out of character effort.
Personally I like to see an incremental reward for the hard work I put in. I have been in cases where my reward has been less than others, which has been stink, but in the end it just made me do more to get that better costume, or to RP ‘better’, or to involve more people.
Flat xp has its issues as well. If you were to take xp as a reward solely for characters (not players) then alloting flat xp does actually reflect what that character may have done in game. Should it be reflective? What about the character that gets into every fight or sits in every meeting and does what the character should do, against the character who does very little? Are they progressing at the same level in a believable sense?
I think the core of the problem here is that while Multi XP is the most fair, it is not without issue. It is subjective to being witnessed or opinion, as well as perhaps OOC concerns such as time, money etc. So in the absence of a completely perfect system then next best alternative is to remove all those flaws, and that is where the flat reward comes in.
[quote=“Aiwe”]There is a dark side to it. People who aren’t mentioned on those threads will possibly feel much worse than just from getting not enough XP, because XPs are awarded privately, and if you didn’t do well you don’t need to tell anyone. Threads are public, and when you see other people praised and you are not even mentioned, it’s really depressing and demotivating.
Btw, I have just tried to go start a “favourite costume” thread on Teonn forum and decided not to… because if I mention too many it loses it’s value, and if just a few I’m scared to upset those I didn’t mention. Too hard
[/quote]
Sorry that this is slightly off the topic, but I have a problem with the above opinion. While I can understand not being mentioned causing a person to feel unpleasant/unwanted, as I myself have experienced it, surely you aren’t suggesting that we ought not to encourage and thank those people who deserve it?
“That person really made the effort, they also helped that other person out, and they made immersion possible…but I’d better not thank them in front of someone else, because then that someone else might get offended.”
That’s me taking it to the extreme.
IMO, the best thing about the LARPing community is the collective helpfulness and friendliness of everyone. Other LARPers will help you get costume together. They will congratulate you on good costuming. They’ll thank you for the times you help them. The helpfulness even overflows into the game, where players interact, and build the game for each other, with the efforts they have put in for costume help immersion.
I don’t think ‘responsibility’ was a perfect word choice, but it is apt for both Norm and Scott, who actually view their LARPing in that way, and their own game is the better for every other player they help. I know I am hanging out to talk to Marcus next Teonn game.
A rule suggested to me as a baby LARPer (and I’m still a young one); In LARP, make everyone else look good.
Bringing it back to the topic, sort of, if one of the roles the GMs are wielding the XP tools for is to promote the improvement of individuals, their costume, their roleplay, and hence the overall game, then, IMO, all good.
So - returning to the actual topic here.
No one can justify why the two characters have different skill levels when they have done exactly the same things and are essentially copy pasted characters.
[quote=“Xcerus”]
No one can justify why the two characters have different skill levels when they have done exactly the same things and are essentially copy pasted characters.[/quote]
This statement has already been conclusively proven.
I was about to spend time going through this thread and outlining each time various members of this forum have addressed the original topic, and with success. However, if you cannot be bothered reading and understanding the arguments and points already made, both in favour of your original point and against it, then I too cannot be bothered outlining them for you.
Why does anyone have to justify one or the other anyway? In each larp it works the way GMs say. Just like that. I see nothing wrong with it, if someone put that much work into organising larp they can certainly maintain it the way they see best.
Lol, that’s a really amusing idea. Maybe I worry too much about not upsetting someone and do it wrong way.
This is actually a very good point. Maybe I missed it completely
This the advice that I have given to people the few times that I have actually been asked for it. It seems to serve very well, even if I don’t always live up to it myself…
[quote=“Robza”][quote=“Xcerus”]
No one can justify why the two characters have different skill levels when they have done exactly the same things and are essentially copy pasted characters.[/quote]
This statement has already been conclusively proven.
I was about to spend time going through this thread and outlining each time various members of this forum have addressed the original topic, and with success. However, if you cannot be bothered reading and understanding the arguments and points already made, both in favour of your original point and against it, then I too cannot be bothered outlining them for you.[/quote]
No - it was proven from an out of character point of view. No one could explain how from an in character point of view two identical heroes who had done exactly the same thing in the same universe could differ so much in ability.
Largely because it was established that it was highly unlikely for two identical heroes to a) be present in the same universe, and b) do exactly the same things.
The only feasible way this could be accomplished, is if the two characters stayed within a metre of each other at all times, mimicing the movements of the other, and speaking exactly the same words at exactly the same time. Anything other than that, and they will no longer be identical characters.
Additionally, it was pointed out that XP is (often) not purely a character reward … it can also be partially a player reward.
Aside from this, and referring directly to your most recent post, the simplest answer is “just because”. Even considering the unlikeliness of the situation (see first couple of paragraphs), should one of the characters be in a different place, or encounter the same situation at a different time, actions change the universe. Sure, they may both respond the same way to the same stimuli, but the same stimuli will never occur twice!
Thus, they will almost certainly, at some point, make different decisions, take different choices, and thus, diverge. Unless the convention proposed in paragraph two is followed, of course. And even that won’t help in certain situations.
Even if Adam’s original question wasn’t answered to his satisfaction, I think this thread has brought up some interesting POVs and debates. And I think it’s highlighted that there is no perfect XP system that will make everyone happy. Both have their flaws.
But I think to ye olde DnD tabletop games I’ve played in where the entire party gets the same amount of XP. Some players might have contributed more, or roleplayed better, or had wittier banter or what have you, but the whole party is able to move along at the same level - and that makes it easier for people to contribute on an equal level to their peers. And THAT is what often will encourage people to raise their game. Inclusion.
GMs and crew will always be looking for opportunities to enhance the game, and that often means taking advantage of the resources they’ve got - which includes the players. Therefore, players DO get “rewards” beyond XP in the form of having elements of their backstory used as plot points, or by being targeted by NPCs purely because they’re interesting or suit that moment, or perhaps getting a special power or item if it suits the plot, etc…
And players will be doing the same thing - looking to enhance their experience of the game by chasing the kind of RP opportunities that excite them personally - be that people with amazing costumes or strong RP or more subtle RP or simple costuming or what have you. I guess what I’m trying to say about this is that the game is self-rewarding to a degree. And therefore I think the inclusiveness of giving everyone the same amount of XP outweighs the “motivational” nature of flexi XP - especially because we’ve already seen the comments from those who find it a de-motivator.