Issues with Alcohol at Larps

nzLARPS
#101

This is the very concerning, and to me, the most worrisome thing I’ve read on this thread.[/quote]

Drinking at LARPs was such a surprise to me when I moved to NZ. It’s not just a Teonn thing. I’d heard about it prior to other games (admittedly, it wasn’t in a negative light thought). I hadn’t done much LARPing in the US, but the ones I did go to had a very, very strict no alcohol policy, so I was initially really surprised.[/quote]

Drinking at LARPs was a surprise for me too haha. I think it was being at a scout camp for weekend larps that maybe caused me to assume that alcohol wasn’t allowed on the premises. And that appealed to me.

It just feels safer all around, and I think safety is especially important in this kind of environment. You don’t have to worry about people hurting themselves inebriated, or alcohol poisoning, or having to deal with people that don’t have complete control over their actions.

We have rules in place about what is and isn’t appropriate behaviour when larping, which get told to new larpers the instant they first come, being stressed as very important. In my (few) experiences, I’ve only ever seen those lines crossed when people are drinking.

(But I also haven’t been to many larps, so yeah).

#102

I’ve been in the community since before the founding of NZLARPs and have been on the committee for some time now. As have Mike, Ryan, Anna and many other that have voiced concern…

Incidents with drinking ARE on the rise.

In the past two years I have dealt with more issues of drunkenness (walking people back to rooms, a few injuries and a few committee based discussions) than I ever heard of in the community before that point.

I have the odd drink at LARPs and have done for some years now (since the days of Mordavia for those that remember that). I moderate my drinking. I have a drink with my meal. I often am up having a nice nightcap by the fire while meeting many of the new people when incidents happen. I deal with more trouble than I cause late at night (from Drinkers to Camp Wardens to Stray Dogs) and like to think I’m not one of the trouble drinkers. I even camp out regularly at weekend LARPs now days as I feel bad about coming in late at night.

But I see that not everyone is as managed and responsible as some of the other members.

I don’t want there to be a ban on drinks… But I will support the committee in proposing a ban if it’s tabled.

#103

some comments - I did witness someone walk up to another person while everyone was singing on the Saturday night… This person was well over the limit already, the second person handed them a bottle of straight spirits which they proceeded to chug down. Now while the extremely drunk person should never have got into that state, the second (older) person should have had some semblance of limiting his sharing when confronted with an obviously over the Alcohol limit, dead drunk. So my point being that while people are being friendly and “sharing” they are also not helping the situation… There are other options that I haven’t seen anyone so far mention, (I may have missed it) , that of “banning brought in alcohol” and having a OOC bar setup, with only alcohol purchased on the premises available… You would need people with Liquor licenses i’m guessing, but you could maintain a lot more control with this setup, especially if the hours were cut down , The profits would go back into NZlarps …
If drinking is to continue, then the other thing i thought of is that when signing up for games you should “agree” to drink in moderation (signed agreement) and take responsibility (Financial costs and otherwise ) of any repercussions from drinking in excess (damage, ambulance etc) … You could even state that you sign "agreement " not to bring “spirits” or “stated amount” to certain larps… It sounds a bit OTT maybe , but if drinking is to continue as many will want, then agreeing to moderate in writing is not a big deal…
If you did suggest that bags “may” be checked as you enter the after larp party then often the threat is enough to police it… The other option is slightly increasing costs , and hiring a security guard for the saturday night, It will probably cost $500 but may save a life. They could essentially keep all drinking in the hall and check that no further alcohol than the “agreed” amount was allowed.

#104

Actually? I’m almost at the point where I think a few names need to be dropped. We’re getting descriptions of behaviour, we don’t really know if it’s the same people time and again or if it’s fresh ones and. Hel, if someone has been THAT bad a spanky, they deserve to have their name put out there. Even if it’s me. Hel, especially if it’s me! (I say that as I don’t recall anyone telling me off for drinking, I don’t remember scaring anyone overly and I can only wish I’d done something wude … .side effect of getting older is that I’m becoming a bit more responsible).

Name em. State their misdeed and when. This need not, nor should it, become a witch hunt btw. But if we have issues and problem people, people need to know. shrug (again, I need to know if I was guilty!)

On that note, I’m also happy to raise my hand as a night warden for events I attend. Ten years hospitality, I can be polite and firm, and tell a friend to quit when they need to. And like Derek, I’m someone most people know. Calm, sincere, friendly, firm and solid as rocks if we need to be.

Btw folks, you make a blanket ban on alcohol? Hmmm, let’s hear it for the roaring 20’s and Prohibition! Drinking will very likely just occur off-site, and then you have a new problem. Change is needed, very true, but it needs to happen from inside. Should organisers be responsible? Yes/no? Yes, let people know of consequences and ask for the Derek’s and Myself’s of the event to step up. No, cause realistically, their not there to hold our hands people. They do enough of that in game.

  • Food (self provided or as a group, cause we al love socialising :slight_smile: )
  • Wardens (Volounteers pls raise your hands!)
  • Repercussions (Cause there has to be a consequence if you want to be taken seriously … child rearing 101)

Oh, if I HAVE offended anyone whilst drinking at an event. Come see me, tell me what I did and I am very, very likely to be embarrassed and you’ll get a very very sincere apology.

#105

Liquor licences are a huge degree of cost and hassle, and well beyond NZLARPS’ purpose. If someone wanted to do this independently (in the style of the UK travelling bar which serves their major events), then good luck to them - but they’d need to make damn sure they were welcome at events before risking their money.

$500 is an extra $5 per participant at large events. Other measures are cheaper.

#106

Sure. But is it a problem for us? Yes if they turn up pre-loaded (in which case I would expect an event organiser informed of it to send them home immediately). But if they go somewhere away from the venue, and are quiet when they come back, what business is it of ours what they do?

Sure, a blanket ban is irritating, but bluntly if people can’t go without for a weekend, then they have a problem and need to see someone about it.

#107

I don’t think that public naming would be helpful to this discussion. If there are issues, I’m guessing they should be reported to a member of the appropriate committee (Regional? National? not sure).

I agree, Lokisson, that real events associated with real people could be helpful data. BUT … I also feel that publicly identifying such, in this forum, will not lead to helpful outcomes. It is fine if people wish to describe their own behaviour (which several have done in this thread, in helpful & contributory fashion), but accusations should be handled more carefully, I believe.

Perhaps if a committee member could comment here: If someone has information they wish to offer to inform this debate, but is uncomfortable with publicly naming people, would it be appropriate to supply this information to an NZLARPS committee member? And if so, to whom & by what means should they address their concerns?

#108

Sure. But is it a problem for us? Yes if they turn up pre-loaded (in which case I would expect an event organiser informed of it to send them home immediately). But if they go somewhere away from the venue, and are quiet when they come back, what business is it of ours what they do?

Sure, a blanket ban is irritating, but bluntly if people can’t go without for a weekend, then they have a problem and need to see someone about it.[/quote]

Actually, yes, it can be a problem for us. Drinking isn’t allowed in most public places. Police are more likely to be called and then you/we have to deal with that issue. People are already not being quiet, I can’t see that changing overly even if they’re off-site and unregulated tbh. Saying if they’re quiet when come back is pretty much part of the problem we have now. They aren’t being quiet, they aren’t being safe, they aren’t being disruptive. Making things go underground never really changed those issues for other things, I suspect it wouldn’t now.

#109

Of course, we don’t have to come to a blanket solution to this. Merely getting the discussion going is probably enough for individual GMs to make their own decisions based on what the community says. The VUW Games Club gets coffee after their games. Sometimes there’s a beer involved, but we never do this on site; we’re always in town instead. For Hydra or 33AR, this isn’t an option, and those decisions can be made based on the community - if the GMs are concerned about it, then they’re able to place a ban.
I think it should be a last resort, and there’s a lot more information that can be provided to players about potential consequences for overimbibing. We have, in various situations, made very specific announcements about the consequences for other things that affected the community. This doesn’t need to be a lot more work for anyone - all that needs to be done in each case is a decision to be made, and for it to be communicated clearly. If people don’t like or don’t respect the decision, then they can go elsewhere, surely. For Chimera, they can drink in town, or stay with locals that are okay with drinking, rather than doing it on site. In Wellington, they can… I dunno, suck it up, I guess.

I want to provide some detail of my Chimera experience this year, because I found it interesting in how it speaks to the vibe of the community in general. I got quite nicely toasted this year, which was surprising, because I didn’t have any alcohol with me. But most people in the community are nice, and this ‘niceness’ resulted in me being offered, over the course of three hours: three beers, two glasses of ginger wine, and half a bottle of cheap red (which it was suggested I drink in order to stop the owner from drinking it). Was I disruptive? No, I don’t think so. People took my state in their stride, I made it to bed fine and up the next morning. But it might speak to how the community works in general: we’re having a good time, and we’d like you to join us. Here’s a drink. Is this a bad thing? Well, it’s not great, but it was nice at the time. I should have stopped a few drinks earlier, perhaps, but lesson learned for next year.

And that’s the thing: the lesson is learned. If there are repeat offenders, and so far nobody can say with any certainty that there are, then that’s a problem we need to see to. And it’s an easier problem to deal with than if it’s just first-time attendees not knowing their limits. There might be a culture of drinking associated with LARPing. That’s what we need to change, and that shouldn’t be too difficult. All it needs to be is making the consequences of these actions crystal clear. I mean, damnit Jim, we’re LARPers, not pirates.

#110

The relevant event organiser in the first instance. Its their event, and their decision on what to do about it. While NZLARPS has some powers under the Code of Conduct, event organisers have much greater freedom to act.

#111

A lot of what I have to say on this subject has already been covered, and my views have best been summarized by Anna and Ryan. However I would like to add the following points:

  1. The culture of drinking and staying up till the wee hours of the morning is definately something I have heard people express as one of the main reason’s they come to the game. I have heard this opinion expressed mostly by the younger members of NZLARPs with a memorable quote of “come and drink and hang out by the fire pit… oh and there is a larp.” Although my main focus as a game organiser is for the people who attend my game to have a good time, I feel that this attitude of drinking or not drinking an staying up til 4am socialising is very disrespectful to the amount of work and effort put in by game orgnisers.

Since about the 3rd Teonn game, we have pleaded in all our crew briefings for crew to please not to have too late a night because we need them for the events the following morning. This was after one game where we had to cancel the main plot for a Saturday morning because we only had 10 crew show up before 9:30am while everyone else was sleeping off the ill effects of the night before. It has even gotten to the point where we deliberately plan only plot with smaller numbers of crew for the Saturday morning. So yes drinking AND staying up too late does impact the game we have put so much of our time and effort into.

This culture of drinking is so strong that on two occasions when a GM has asked people to stop drinking. Once because they were being OOC and there was still PCs having some intense RP going on, and once when it was 4am and the drinking was happening in the middle of the tents and therefore was disturbing the sleep of everyone there, as GMs we have been told to piss off and they can drink if they want to.

  1. The number of incidents over a weekend game of Teonn ranges between 2-6 from friends having to carry a drunken person to their bed to someone having sex in the crew room in front of everyone. I am absolutely terrified that someone is going to wander off into the Motu Moana woods drunk and either fall into a ditch and hurt themselves or fall off the cliffs and get killed. Drinking IS a massive problem.

I really dont feel that we will have a solution to this problem until there is a shift in the culture. I really dont like the, you get drunk once and get a warning approach, because it only takes one person’s first time they get drunk, for them to get raped, or massively injure themselves or someone else. We really dont want to put a blanket ban on Teonn because we dont want to punish those that do drink responsibly, but we have been so close to doing so because we cant trust that there wont be that one fatal incident and then us as game organisers would get blamed, and we will be asked what measures we put in place to prevent such an event from happening.

  1. We have now included in ALL our briefings for people to take responsibility of themselves, as the majority of atendees are adults, but this approach is not working. From people demaning that we provide medication they forgot to bring, to being blamed for sunburn as we didnt provide sunscreen to generally being abused for lack of the type of food they eat (not talking about vegetarianism, talking about pickiness) etc I dont know what can be done, but this sense of entitlement and culture currently in larping makes it very hard to run a game. NZLARPS was founded in the spirit of co-operation, to make it easier for organisers of larps and where everyone pitches in. (yes I have even been told to piss off when asking some people to help clean up after Teonn) This focus on a culture shift is where I think our energies should be put, but I dont really have an answer or suggestions.

PS: Hope all this makes sense, it really upsets me and therefore sometimes I do ramble on.

#112

I don’t really mind if people are named or not. I can see good and bad in both instances. :slight_smile: However, atm, all we mostly have are blanket descriptions performed by person or persons unknown.

I agree that it should be handled, nationally, in case we have the same persons being this way at various events. If it’s handled locally, how do we let GM’s and organisers in other areas know to be aware of said persons potential problems? Create a list of known naughty woolly socks and we keep an eye on them. Advise said socks of their name going on the naughty list to be fair. This also gives that person an opportunity to address the issue, and either resolve it, make good or continue in their wicked ways and watch as their name gets darkened on the list of really cool people GM’s want in their games :slight_smile:

Refer to my above “consequences” thing :stuck_out_tongue:

#113

If people go off-site, violate a local liquor ban, and get arrested, then that is their problem, not ours. We’re not the police, and we’re not people’s parents. We’re responsible for running safe and enjoyable larp events, and that’s it.

#114

You’re running an event, they were at your event, they were busted around the corner drinking and being tools. They get arrested. They and the police, become your problem. They get injured while being drunk around the corner, as members of your event, they and the ambulance become your problem. They injure someone else whilst drinking off-site at your event, it becomes your problem.

The police have a tendency to view people at your events as your problem, if they step in, then you have the off-site drinker’s problem and the police as your problem.

Did I mention years in Hospitality and Event Organisation? lol

It sounds insane that someone who’s not even on the same grounds can be your responsibility, but they are. Especially if the police take a dim view on things and want to know why you weren’t doing more to monitor your attendee’s behaviour. I’ve seen it happen and been annoyed/frustrated that there was nothing we could do to stop it at the time.

#115

As a general query: did you have problems getting players or crew for the (dry) Piha game last year?

#116

I’m not trying to be condescending, so I seriously hope that my tone doesn’t come across that way. Just trying to point out what I’ve seen over the years. :slight_smile:

#117

I think the only adequate response to that is ‘Strewth’, because I’m so floored by that that I’ve temporarily forgotten all the swear words I know. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything even remotely approaching it in Wellington. Maybe that’s the thing: people here are afraid of getting booted out of the site, and we’ve threatened to do it before. It’s a lonely walk from Wainuiomata to Wellington central at 4 a.m.

#118

Sex in front of everyone? :open_mouth: Wow. I’m fairly sure I wouldn’t be offended, but I’d probably have asked them to go somewhere a little more private. We have kids, and very young adults, at these things!

2-6 incidents per game is rough too. Repeat offenders or new ones?

#119

As a general query: did you have problems getting players or crew for the (dry) Piha game last year?[/quote]

We had about 20 less crew than normal, but that may have been due to the increase in cost to play and the remoteness of the venue.

EDIT: actually about 40 less crew than normal. My brain just blocked it out because the 30 crew we did have did such a good job at seeming many more. We usually have 70ish crew and only had 30 at the Piha game

#120

Wellington is an older, more settled crowd, who have got their drunken vomiting hookup phase out of their systems years ago. The culture is a little different as a result.