Issues with Alcohol at Larps

nzLARPS
#81

I’m not meaning that it’s a small ignorable problem, I meant that the majority of people who do drink are drinking responsibly…

I am new to LARP (I’ve only been to the last Teonn) but from what I saw there, most players and crew were either drinking responsibly or not drinking.

I sort of view it as a problem which needs to be addressed, but not a 80 out of every 100 people are getting excessively drunk - so tailor the solution to the 10-20 out of a 100 (made up numbers here people) who do drink in excess

#82

My experience from being “that guy” one event:

I got pretty drunk at the first weekend game (Teonn crewing) that I attended. I was still able to make the morning battle, and I didn’t have to be carried to bed or anything (despite some people who weren’t there now attributing this to me) but I still got way drunker than I ever should have at a weekend event.

While part of the contributing factors for me were definitely that I had horribly misjudged my tolerance after having not eaten for hours and most likely having been dehydrated on top of that, there was definitely a drinking culture/atmosphere element to it as well. This was the first weekend event I had been to and I was a pretty socially awkward person who was anxious to make friends in the hobby. Coming up to Teonn I heard more stories about drinking at Teonn than I did about the larping, and getting really drunk at weekend events just sounded like the thing that you did. This led to me having a skewed view about the place of drinking in larps which was not at all changed by the levels of OOC drinking on both nights. In my own stupidity I saw drinking not so much as a method as the method of socialising at larps which obviously completely backfired when I made myself look like an idiot. While I take complete responsibility for getting that drunk and have since taken steps to ensure I do not do so again, I still think that some of it comes down to how drinking is treated, if not by an majority, then by a large number of people at larps. Observing people at other events, some will laugh with their ever-more inebriated friends right up until the point where that person drinks themselves into unconsciousness. Being hungover or still drunk in the Sunday morning round of Chimera is seen by some as a badge of honour or at least something to be laughed at. For some people what is seen as acceptable or normal definitely seems to extend beyond a few drinks to unwind. I have no idea personally how people would go about changing that sort of drinking culture, but if a new larper comes to their first game with a pre-formed impression that getting smashed at events is a pretty normal thing to do, then it is probably not helping things change for the better.

At the same time I think publicly shaming people is one of the worst ways to deal with it. I felt bad enough after that Teonn (and yes, I should have felt bad for getting drunk like that) but if I had been publicly shamed I would have left the larping scene in tears and never returned. As Kirsten said a lot of people do it once and learn from their mistakes. People should take responsibility if they behave badly and giving them a warning or banning them from drinking at larps seem to be good measures, but public shaming is just outright nasty.

#83

Chimera this year was my first LARP and almost my last…

Within a few moments of the Friday briefing I had an unpleasant encounter with someone who was clearly inebriated. This left me feeling uncomfortable as it was a very ‘one sided’ encounter that took me by surprise. Then in my first game, the same person, seemingly even more inebriated, began acting aggressively. This would be fine were they clearly in-character and role-playing, but being inebriated they were in an out of character constantly. I (and I am sure others) did not know if the behavior was in or out of character. When the person acted extremely aggressively toward a player (IC or OOC… i wasn’t sure) I was torn between stopping then (and possibly looking like a complete ass) or letting it go ahead and potentially allowing the target of the aggression to become traumatized. Put simply, It ruined my game.

This was my experience. I don’t mean to point fingers or vilify, I just want it known that this could be the first face of chimera to some new players. However, And importantly, it was a one-time thing! I am glad I did not leave as I met wonderful people and thoroughly enjoyed myself. The drinkers in the ooc evening did not bother me. As has been pointed out, 99% of the drinkers are responsible.

Some people simply cannot drink responsibly. Those are the ones that need (as Derek put it so well) the hard talk.

Just my 5c worth…

#84

By that I was meaning it was difficult conversation for the initiator to actually do.

Nobody wants to tell their friends off, it’s a horrible position to be put into.

#85

Okay, but as far as I can tell from this thread so far, it’s hardly ever the same people twice. Which means that people are being a nuisance once, and then generally feeling bad enough about it that they watch themselves in future, making sure they don’t get drunk, etc. If someone continues to make the same mistake (and it is a mistake, not a deliberate act of trolling other attendees), they might not be invited back. That’s the risk they take.

But to say that the solutions that are being proposed are already the status quo doesn’t seem entirely accurate. I’ve never heard the repercussions for drinking spelled out as they have been in the post today. I’ve had my sleep interrupted by sober people, and I didn’t go and tell them to shut up, so my error there.

If people are getting smashed once, then no amount of warning is going to fix it, though. If I haven’t gotten disruptively drunk, then I don’t think I will. And I will continue to think that until after I’ve done it. So we say ‘don’t do it’ and everyone goes ‘okay, I won’t’, and then they do, accidentally or recklessly. And only then can they start to moderate their behaviour.

It sucks. It sucks to think we can’t increase advance responsibility. But the ambulance at the bottom might be the best we can do, and maybe if the ambulance is a one-way trip (you don’t get to come back to this convention. Sorry), then people will start paying attention. But what else can we do, if all our good ideas aren’t working?

#86

Is it possible to take the ‘seems’ out of this? Do we have actual details on the number and severity of the issues?

I wonder if the incidents are increasing or has peoples patience with these kinds of things decreased?

My suspicion from the anecdotal evidence on here is that we have a steady stream of new players (I will make an ageist assumption and assume young). Occasionally (at least 1 per game) one of them will screw-up, get drunk, ruin it for a few people and then learn their lesson.

The key here is to try and target those at risk of poor behavior. Big Larps have 120+ people and the vast majority do not cause issues, penalizing all of them for the mistakes of a few doesn’t seem like a good solution to me.

Do we accept perhaps that there will always be idiots and work out ways to minimize impacts on the rest.

Sensible Curfews
Clearer punishments that act as deterrents for others
An organized Game End Supper
A ban on Spirits

#87

While I’m all in favour of math and accurate statistical analysis, I really think that making a spreadsheet about this is getting a bit over analytical.

Some people drunk too much. Other people complained about their behaviour.

Let’s now talk to them directly and ask them to modify their behaviour.

#88

So, I didn’t go to Chimera, and I don’t stay up late at Hydra (I’m taking care of the mini-larper at night. Don’t get me started on larping on a crappy night’s sleep :p), but I used to be heavily involved in an ongoing larp campaign that, as a campaign, had a drinking problem. I’m sure for a lot of the players (who are all serious and respectable and grown up these days :wink:) it didn’t feel that way, but for someone who was involved in organising, cleaning-up, and herding players out of her flat at 3am, it sucked. I feel, deeply, for the organisers and GMs who are dealing with this - it’s horrible & unpleasant & generally thankless.

My experiences with larping with drunks has left me very firmly in the camp of those who prefer a no-drinking during the game policy. Even if it’s not going badly wrong, drunken larpers don’t bring their best game. But it sounds like most of the problems are happening after the games, not during?

I think, if you want to shift your postgame culture, you need to have something in mind to shift it to, and that any new cultural paradigm needs to still meet the needs of the group. I completely understand the need to relax after a game, to catch up with friends, and to postgame out all the cool details. That’s all normal - but it can be done without a whole lot of alcohol. Before I took my extended evening larp hiatus of baby, I’d got very attached to a culture of drinking coffee and eating delicious baked goods postgame (Idiot is a god amongst bakers. Don’t let anyone tell you any different).

So, I know it’s more work, and I hate to suggest more work for overtaxed organisers, but maybe some consideration should be given to hot drinks and supper being served after evening games. It might help wind people down, so they can realise how freaking tired they are before they start drinking. Just one possibility - but whatever is decided, it helps to have a vision of what you want to happen.

#89

I’m not interested in details or naming names, but this seems to be a rather major spike from the sounds of things.

Which other events have had this number of issues?[/quote]

There have been incidents at last years Chimera, there have been various incidents at previous Teonn games. I can’t say I have had any major issues at Hydra beyond playing areas left in a mess. And I can’t speak for 33AR, Witch House or other events.

But one of the reasons this was raised with the Committees is that the number of incidents seems to be increasing.[/quote]

And do we know if it’s the same group of people? If so then it means that apart from individuals who are ignoring the advice/social contract, that the current way of doing things is going well.

I feel it’s worth pointing out that both Chimera and Teonn are big events. And they have been getting bigger, which means the problem will be appearing more often.

Also there are two things that jump out at me through this whole conversations,

  1. people who are drunk can be rowdy which is a pain the the arse;
  2. people getting so drunk that they are at serious risk of doing themselves (and possibly others) major harm.

Number 1 is a common side effect of drinking, and to be honest I don’t see any way around it other than what is already been done. People drink, they get loud. It just is. Annoying for non drinkers? Of course, but if drinking is allowed then rowdiness is to be expected.

Number 2 (IMHO) is the real worry. People drinking to that extreme are a danger. But I’ve also learned that people who drink like that aren’t always open to sense. They drink, a lot. No matter what. They don’t see the problem, and they resent the implication that there even is an issue. Or they just don’t know their limits. In either case it’s very difficult to stop the situation from occurring with guidelines and sensible words. In these cases you need the ambulance
(figuratively I hope), and I think that the person involved has to be told that the behaviour isn’t welcome. Maybe they get a single warning, maybe they’re told they can’t come back for one session, maybe they get a life time ban. The penalty is up to the GM/person running the event.

People make mistakes, rules can help people identify those mistakes before they happen but in many cases people don’t learn until they mess up and have to face the consequences.

#90

Late night baking and hot drinks? Count me in! I might even bring a tea pot to the next 33AR… hmmm and brownies.

#91

The easiest solution from the event organisers perspective is simply to run a dry event. Less work, less hassle, less worry. I don’t like that solution (because I too have enjoyed the odd drink after game-time), but all the incentives point that way.

As for other solutions, if people are merely drunk and loud, as opposed to aggressive, telling them that their future attendance is conditional on them not drinking at this or any other (cooperating) larp event seems reasonable. The problem is that that requires policing, which in turn requires letting people know that that person is not allowed to drink on site or they’ll be going home.

#92

This. I’d go further to say it was inaccurate. I’ve not seen any marshals, wardens or people being talked to about their behavior. Nor have I seen an active buddy system or clear rules set into place to let people know what will happen as a result of their drunkeness to the point of impairment.

Also agree with Sophie’s separation of the issues at hand. We’re really mostly concerned about people getting drunk to the point of being in physical danger and creating a burden on the game and other people. Considering noise, late at night is often a by-product of LARPing, banning alcohol is not really logical step to addressing that.

#93

This is the very concerning, and to me, the most worrisome thing I’ve read on this thread.

#94

This is the very concerning, and to me, the most worrisome thing I’ve read on this thread.[/quote]

Agreed. Is this the kind of reputation we want spread about us?

#95

This is the very concerning, and to me, the most worrisome thing I’ve read on this thread.[/quote]

Drinking at LARPs was such a surprise to me when I moved to NZ. It’s not just a Teonn thing. I’d heard about it prior to other games (admittedly, it wasn’t in a negative light thought). I hadn’t done much LARPing in the US, but the ones I did go to had a very, very strict no alcohol policy, so I was initially really surprised.

#96

This is the very concerning, and to me, the most worrisome thing I’ve read on this thread.[/quote]

Blondini and Che’s stories horrify me as well. We have people being discouraged from attending events because of other people’s drunken behaviour.

#97

The person inebriated and aggressive to the point of almost putting someone off larping is extremely worrying, along with Che’s experience of completely inappropriate behaviour for a public sleeping area.

Why is anyone showing up to a larp already drunk? That’s not on.

Ditto the “come and drink your ass off and btw do some larping” attitude that it sounds like is out there. That’s a new one on me. New people can’t be expected to know how to behave if that’s what’s being advertised. :frowning:

#98

This is the very concerning, and to me, the most worrisome thing I’ve read on this thread.[/quote]

Edit: Post deleted. I’ve no interest in further contributing to this thread.

#99

Also, I think we need to distinguish the weekend long events from con-style events if we’re going to start spreading unrest. No one has turned up to a weekend game drunk that I’ve ever heard about. Anything to the contrary out there?

#100

Hey Nick, chill out. No-one is spreading unrest. Naming and shaming people need not happen for someones point of view to be heard here. We are trying to get constructive dialogue from all members of the larping community, and it is inevitable that you will not agree with everything here, and there of course will have been stuff that the game organisers and committee members know that is not known by everyone.