Issues with Alcohol at Larps

nzLARPS
#41

[quote=“Anna K”]
“Personal responsibilty” shouldn’t come from an outside source informing you of when you’ve crossed the line or when its time to go to bed. For a cultural shift, we need everyone to realise that when you drink too much or party loudly where people are sleeping or hurt yourself etc, you’re impacting your friends’ enjoyment. Your friends don’t enjoy having to go, “Hey mate, you’re drunk, go to bed.”[/quote]
^
This. - (facebook style thumbs up).

Basically we all know what the problem is and that it is individual responsibility to control the situation

  • How to drum it in to those that just don’t get it - that is our “solution”.
  • Because, ironically, leaving it up to the individual is what makes the problem.

@ Idiot:

One point I scrubbed from my blah was that if people want to drink to their pillow they should plan prior to convention start - resigning from playing morning games. Also this is probably a bad point because it easily goes from sleepy drunk to vomit on Linda drunk. Which nobody wants.

#42

[quote=“Helikaon”][quote=“amphigori”]I think what I proposed addresses the issue, and is simple enough, isn’t it?

If it’s clear that someone is drunk enough to be:

  • Sick
  • Violent
  • Obnoxiously loud/confrontational
  • Incapable of taking care of themselves
  • Too hungover to roleplay
  • Etc…

They’re sent home as soon as practical, with no chance of a refund, and may not return to future games unless the GM team agrees.

I’d be at the GM team’s discretion if someone met the above criteria. It’d be at the GM team’s discretion to give someone a warning first, rather than immediate ban. I trust all our GMs to know the difference between people being gregarious because it’s a fun social night, versus being obnoxiously drunk.

Every player would then know that if they chose to drink, they are responsible for drinking responsibly, or being sent home if they don’t.

This reinforces the culture shift you want to happen, as does continuing to talk about the issue, and ensuring there are social RP events (which I’m always happy to organise, and I"m sure others are too) and after-larps.[/quote]

This. At the moment a blanket ban punishes people who have been responsibly drinking and doing their part to make sure it can still be a thing, to get at the people who have not.

I personally love having a drink while socializing. It’s relaxing, it’s a kick back, and it gives you a break from the intensity of LARPing for a few crucial hours.

If people cannot handle the morning after (I get really bad hangovers, very easily) then they should not attend the morning after. And saying “then they’re screwing over the GMs because of drinking” is like telling people they’re not allowed to sleep in if they want to, even after a dry night (people will still be up until 3am).[/quote]

My 2 cents, I agree with everything Jackie has proposed as well. It seems even handed, and sensible. If a person is ruining things for others due to their behavior then the organisers should have the right to ask them to no longer attend.

#43

Its less of an issue if a player misses a morning at a weekend-long campaign larp - if they miss plot, that’s their own business. But at something like Chimera or Hydra, other people are depending on them to turn up and fill their roles. It affects not just the player, but everyone in their game (and everyone who wanted a place in that game, but lost out in favour of a pisshead). And if you’re in a vital role, then it can make the game non-viable unless a last-minute replacement is found.

(If you’re miss a morning crewing, then you’re just not doing what you’re there to do, and similarly letting down the people who are depending on you to play your parts).

In short, its not just about you.[/quote]

Who is forcing you to sign up to a morning game? I’m well aware of the the fact that it’s not just about the one person, but the whole game and the links to the character, but if you know you’re going to be drinking then take the initiative to not sign up to Sunday morning.

#44

That’s a sensible solution, and people should manage their behaviour this way (and I’m aware some already do, or skip other sessions to ensure they have sufficient energy for others). The problem arises when they don’t.

#45

I believe Idiot is saying if you have signed up already and then don’t turn up rather than choosing not to sign up.

In saying that as an organiser, yes it’s great if you think you need rest and a sleep in to choose not to sign up for the morning, it’s better that way. Heck for any round you think you need a break in.

But we also need to allow enough player spaces in every round for the number of attendees, so having huge drop offs in rounds can make scheduling hard, though we traditionally have less spaces available on a Sunday morning.
Also be aware if you are staying up drinking all night because you had planned to Sunday morning off, are the people staying up with you (drinking or otherwise) in the same boat, or do they need to get up in the morning to play. And is anyone staying up just to make sure you are okay because they are concerned about you.

#46

I’m in total agreement with most of the above posts on personal responsibility etc. My question is, who will be telling people they have acted inappropriately and should take a leave of absence/self imposed stretch of teetotaling etc. In my opinion/recent experience, people who have this problem also have the problem that they don’t realise the effect their drinking has on others (because if they did, they wouldn’t do it).

#47

There’s obviously some variety of opinion on the place of alcohol in larp, which is to be expected.

Regardless, we all seem to agree that excessive drinking at larp events causes problems, and should be avoided.

A lot of people have said “one or two” is fine, and personally I agree. I think the question then becomes: how much is too much? There’s no universal answer to that, it varies depending on the person and situation.

One thing is fundamental though: if you don’t know how much you’re drinking, you can’t moderate it. So count your drinks.

If you have 2 standard drinks in the first hour, and 1 standard drink each hour after that, you’re highly unlikely to run into trouble. If you know you’re going to stay up from say midnight to 2am drinking, then for example you could:

[ul][li]only have 3 cans of beer with you (or the equivalent)[/li]
[li]don’t drink other people’s stuff (unless swapping a drink)[/li]
[li]don’t bring lots of extra drink and offer it around - you may be pushing someone over their limit.[/li]
[li]space alcohol out with other drinks in between[/li][/ul]
For social drinks on an evening after a larp, limiting yourself to 3 standard drinks is a good rule of thumb.

That way you get a social drink, and even if you haven’t eaten anything you are unlikely to become a problem or a risk for yourself or other people.

#48

So, the ambulance at the bottom of the hill seems to have a bunch of good ideas going for it. Making sure they’re alright, requests for voluntary and temporary drinking bans limited to single people, removing them from events if they refuse or break their own voluntary ban. All good, and as long as they’re enforced with discretion (they actually have to have damaged the event, not just have the potential to) then that could work really well.

But the question is still what we do before that person goes over the cliff. I do like the idea of a curfew, which can be placed at the discretion of the GMs for particular events. It means that, even if people are pre-loading or whatever it is the kids do these days, they’ve got a period of at least five hours before their game starts the next day. I think it’s important in this discussion to remember that nobody is really coming to these events to actually drink themselves catalytic: we’re not necessarily all alcoholics, and if we were, paying $100 for games we won’t be able to attend seems like a weird decision. The majority of people like drinking at these events, and they have demonstrated that they can without any hassle (even me, the most lightweight Irishblood you’ll ever meet). It’s those people who continue drinking past three, or until dawn, or who are already comatose by then, that are the issue, so the curfew should work.

But.

I’m a bit hypocritical in saying this, because at Chimera I was drinking until 4:30. And I think the reason for this is because I don’t carry my phone with me at a con. I had it when I was drinking, and would periodically check it to find out what time it was, and my thinking was always the same. “It’ll be nearly three now.” BAM. Four fifteen. If I’m at a game set before 1945, I don’t wear a wristwatch. Simple as that. And that’s the problem with a curfew: it does need outside enforcement. It needs a sober-minded person in the room to say “That’s three. Help me clean up.” Or it needs a clock visible, which often doesn’t happen because of set dressing or the vagaries of the venue.

#49

Event organisers. Its their event; they get to decide who attends and on what conditions. People who don’t like their responses can vote with their feet.

#50

I just wanna add that I’m really pleased we’re having this discussion, and that the tone is generally helpful and constructive. It’s these kinds of conversations that raise awareness, and getting people to engage with the topic is what helps brings about the cultural change required to see positive results.

So, thanks heaps!

#51

I’ll do that. I already do ‘bad cop’ duties on diatribe. It’s not fun, but if I can take an un-fun thing away from GMs and event organisers I’m happy to do it because it’s this kind of thing that stops people running events.

If GMs / event organisers have had problem drinkers just give me a list of names and I’ll phone them up.

I really don’t favour the public name-and-shame approach. But I am prepared to have the hard conversation with people face-to-face or over the telephone.

#52

[quote=“tigger”]Why does alcohol have to be present to have a good time?
Seriously.
Is alcohol actually necessary for some people to have a good time?
Are there people out there that freak out when a ‘dry’ event is called?[/quote]

I probably would be frustrated. I don’t really intend to engage in this lengthy argument about why or why not but I’ll add my 2c (forums bug me as a time suck). I believe that when a few ruin it for the majority, that a blanket ban is pretty unreasonable.

Banning alcohol would lessen my enjoyment for the following reasons (I can think of more easily, but these jumped to my mind right off as had played out in a dry LARP where as a result I was much worse off for play then I would have been if the activity that I engaged in, instead was excessive drinking*).

*which I don’t do. Godamn having to clarify every positive statement associated with drinking.

-Immersive LARPing, like real life, can be uber stressful. In real life, there’s no problem with me having a beer after work when I’ve had a rough day. And in some cases, IC days can be much worse then any day that I might experience day to day in terms of stress. You play for the dramatic, that’s what we like to do, but it doesn’t’ come without repercussions.

-Crappy bunking conditions. I’m in the room full of snorers. I will get 0 sleep if I’m stone-cold sober (again, this has happened and it was the worse night ever) and will be a complete wreck for any game activities the next day. If I have a drink or two, that will go a long way to put my mind at ease if I’m physically uncomfortable or deafened by snorers.

-The social element. I like to have a drink with friends. You can criticise this as I’ve already seen, but as an out-of-towner I get very limited opportunities to spend time with my Auckland friends. It’s not so easy just to say ‘Well go to the pub after work’ when you will actually find that’s impossible.

I do not however condone excessive drinking. I like to have enough that I’m jovial, but anything past that is no longer fun.

Briefly looking over the first few posts on this thread, I’m in the same mind as Jackie. The people need to take responsibility for themselves. I do however acknowledge that by the time it gets to that point, it’s too late except for future games. I think something like a drinking buddy system might be a helpful way of solving the issue. If you plan to be up, take responsibility for your selected friend, make sure they’re having water or are in a fit enough state. I’d be happy to pick a friend to look out for if this was expected of me.

I would be disappointed if a total ban were to come into effect. I don’t even drink very often (ask my girlfriend, my friends) so I find it unusual to have to feel like I’m arguing for ability to be able to drink on weekend event. It’s almost as if we’re setup to lose by people who don’t drink (of course they’re going to say no, they don’t drink so couldn’t possibly empathise) and that is also frustrating.

Sorry if this has been covered or rebutted already, but I do feel quite strongly about being penalized and ostracized because drinking is part of the experience for me. It’s not the focus, nor should it be, but I think we need to be more considerate in our approach to this issue.

#53

I’ll do that. I already do ‘bad cop’ duties on diatribe. It’s not fun, but if I can take an un-fun thing away from GMs and event organisers I’m happy to do it.

If GMs / event organisers have had problem drinkers just give me a list of names and I’ll phone them up.

I really don’t favour the public name-and-shame approach. But I am prepared to have the hard conversation with people face-to-face or over the telephone.[/quote]

I think that issues with people and alcohol (or bad behaviour in general) need to be addressed at the game, by the game staff. While we all look out for our mates IRL as much as at games, I’m not sure it’s our place to come up with a list of people we think have problems with alcohol and phone them up after. There are professional organisations for people who have problems with alcohol, or have friends/family who have problems. I think it’s best to leave alcohol counseling up to them.

But I think if you want to put your hand up to talk to people at games, if GMs are too busy/uncomfortable/unsure how to do it, then that’s probably a nice thing for you to offer.

#54

As an off the wall thought would it be possible to get someone who has been disruptively drunk, to explain what the contributing factors were to their getting drunk? (either on here or via someone else if they are not keen on admitting to it).

The bulk of people posting on here I know either don’t drink or do drink responsibly. It might be from our perspective there are causes (and therefore solutions) we might not see from our vantage points?

Root cause diagnosis always takes in all the required perspectives :slight_smile:

#55

While I don’t think every event should necessarily be dry, I would definitely support GMs who want their event to be dry.

A related (but tangential) thing that comes up sometimes, is the difference between someone RP drunk, and someone actually drunk. I like to drink, but hardly ever do at larps, and I find it quite fun to roleplay drunk if the situation is appropriate. If an event was dry then there would be a nice distinction, so you know that the player is pretending to get out of control rather than actually.
But as I said this isn’t necessarily related to the issue, just a consequence.

#56

I agree with Nick on every word of his post. It’s also perhaps further support for all this being at the discretion of the GMs: 33AR has had in-character late-night drinking, and that’s an institution I think it would be a shame to lose.

#57

I think this is a point that is worth repeating, and I’m sure its not just Che. However since they probably have already turned away from larping, they may not contribute here, and by definition their numbers are unknowable.

This has been tried for the last couple of years and hasn’t worked so far.

Perhaps its like what Eva said “people who have this problem also have the problem that they don’t realise the effect their drinking has on others (because if they did, they wouldn’t do it).”

#58

THIS! Goddamn this. The reason I do not bunk anymore when I can help it. As an extremely light sleeper, at larp events, I cannot sleep unless I am in absolute or near absolute silence. The only effective counter to this that I have found is drinking enough to let me get to sleep. At one Hydra, there was snoring the cabin next door, I ended up going outside and trying to find a place where I could actually sleep outside. The point is, there are plenty of reasons, some valid, others less so, for why we like to drink.

#59

Maybe. I don’t think GMs should be obliged to take this on along with their other game responsibilities. Some of our GMs don’t even drink.

I’m not a counsellor. I’m not offering to try and cure people from their alcohol related problems. I also won’t be holding peoples hair out of the way while they vomit.

But I’m happy to be blunt with people and tell them they’ve had enough and can they please stop.

#60

At the first 33AR a year ago I got embarrassingly, shamefully drunk on the Saturday night.

According to friends who I trust to tell me straight up if I was obnoxious or out of line, I wasn’t. I didn’t do myself any physical harm, and I don’t think anyone stayed up because they were worried I’d hurt myself. However I was so hungover the next morning I went home with my tail between my legs. So if there was plot set up for me I missed it.

I swore it would never happen again, and it won’t.

Why did I drink to excess? Well mostly it was because I’d had a very dramatic IC evening with a near death experience, and I got caught up in it all. I had brought a fine bottle of whiskey and as a group we were celebrating surviving the apocalypse for one more night. One thing led to another and before I knew it 2am rolled around and I was pouring myself, giggling, into my bunk.

How have I made sure I won’t do this any more? I have limited my supply, and ensured that I have both a non-alcoholic option as well as water easily accessible. I am hyper aware of how much I drink at weekend games now, and do not think that drinking less has made my fun any less. Quite the opposite.

To be blunt it sucked not playing the Sunday, and I am still ashamed for myself. I would also hate to think that my stupidity would mean that other people’s fun was ruined, or that I had put an unfair burden of responsibility on Mel, Thom and Nick who put so much effort into creating such a great weekend of LARPing fun for us.

So there you go, one person’s experience of causing the problem.