Thanks Vanya,
Everything you’ve stated for Crucible makes me really comfortable.
Same. I think the Crucible way sounds good.
I would not recommend going dry for all events unless we have exhausted all other options. This is because having a few quiet drinks at the end of the night is demonstrably popular, and the vast majority of drinkers do so responsibly. While some organisers may wish to make their events totally dry, not all organisers will wish to adopt this position (e.g. Crucible), so there is merit in identifying solutions that address the existing problem: How do we prevent people from getting intoxicated ?.
I think it would be useful to review how alcohol is responsibly used at weekend events (which is where the vast majority drinking-related incidences occur):
- Perhaps a couple of quiet drinks while setting up/catching up
- Drinks with dinner (including pre-dinner drinks)
- OOC drinks in the Late Night area
So where do the incidences typically occur ? In the Late Night area. Why ? While there may be a tiny minority who actively set out to get smashed, I’d say that most people who end up drunk don’t set out to do this. Here’s what I think typically happens:
They start drinking around midnight, having not eaten for 5 or 6 hours. i.e. they are drinking on an empty stomach, which means the alcohol very quickly gets into the bloodstream, and the impact is faster and harder. They drink at their normal (ie. full stomach) rate, and before they know it they are drunk and unable to moderate their intake, keep drinking, and end up drunk.
The solution to the above is to eat FOOD when you start drinking. My suggestion would be for those who wish to engage in OOC Late Night Drinks to take responsibility to ensure there is a good supply of food available. Something like rice and dahl would be perfect (cheap, easy to make, filling and, being vegan and non-gluten, ticks the vast majority of dietary requirements).
I would make this food available to anyone, drinking or not, but MANDATORY if you want to drink. No eating = no drinking, simple as that. Of course, this would not preclude people bringing more varied food to share (which is what already happens). To ensure that the food is supplied, I recommend making it part of the event’s shopping list, although I would expect those who want to hang out in the late night area to take responsibility re cooking, serving, cleanup etc.
Ditto on the above re Crucible. As one of the highly enthusiastic crew who will be causing merry chaos during the Night Watch I personally don’t want to risk fighting someone who is drunk, especially in the dark.
Another idea might be to enlist the help of a handful of people who are present at social drinking groups during the evening. These can be players, crew or GM’s, and they get given the responsibility (and a title to go with it - Night Warden? And maybe also a hat or other prop) of ensuring that the group maintains appropriate behaviours during the drinking session, such as not drinking to excess (actively voicing against such behaviour), not doing anything dangerous, cleaning up afterwards, and wrapping up the session at an appropriate time. Anyone can claim this title at any time. If people get caught with alcohol but without someone present taking up the responsibilities of Night Warden, everyone present gets stood down from the event. If poor behaviour is observed, the person in question is stood down and the representative night warden has to demonstrate what measures they took to stop this behaviour, and if they aren’t good enough they too are stood down.
I do want to reiterate that for Crucible, the game is all weekend and our solution may not be the best for the Conventions where the organisers have to herd a lot of sheep for a vast amount of varied games. Adding on providing food for late night means extra work on the organisers at that point. So lets start organising late night food as players. Happy organisers means more games being organised.
I have a few thoughts on this as well.
From a GM’s perspective, it’s annoying and frustrating as Hel when a player can’t turn up because they were up all night drinking … but then again I’ve seen people not drink, stay up all night socialising and STILL not make morning muster lol. Alcohol just adds another layer. Further, as a GM, I don’t mind someone having a reasonable drink before my games. Not at them. If you’re drunk at my games you have no place there. You’re not responsible, you’re not fun and you’re a complication I don’t need. I tend to run adult themed games and for that I need clear haeds with everyone on deck (so to speak).
As a player, well, pretty much refer above. I respect the GM’s and other players, so don’t expect to see me drunk at the game. It’s rude. I’m there to game, not socialise just then. Note the last two words there.
After game, or downtime. Yup, I like a drink to wind down. I don’t like to go out and drink because then I have ravel issues, so my drinking is usually limited to downtime at games (aka Saturday night) or parties. If you’re so drunk you need my help that night, I AM going to give you grief about it later. I expect the same if I’m that drunk. If you, or I, are so drunk we’re a pain that night or the next day … expect to hear about it in detail!
As a reenactor, event organiser and marshal, I place limits on the TIMES you/we can drink. If you are expected on the field/lists (and this could work a game), you must stop drinking by midnight - 1am. Failure to comply earns you the wrath of the organisers. This can come in a variety of forms from banned form the field (safety reasons), social and public ridicule, ostracism and/or being asked to leave without refund. We’re to have fun, not be a puking mess that other have to deal with.
I like to drink, wind down and have fun. Place limits on it, force people to take responsibility for their own actions … or face the consequences of said actions. As I said, I like a responsible tipple with friends I don’t see often, I enjoy the laughter and inhibition lowering (what can I say, I’m somewhat of a reprobate 
) … but within limits. Keep the booze, add personal responsibility. Hel, if you have 1-2 people who you know are responsible drinkers, see if they don’t mind being warders/minders until 12-1 and after that they cut everyone off or report them for being an ass 
PS: Very well said Mike!!!
Hel no! Yeah, let’s be clear on this one too. You NEVER have to fight someone if you don’t feel safe or just plain don’t want to. Simply say no, give a reason (or not) and walk away. If their behaviour, attitude or sobriety disturbs you in ANY way? Report them. If you can’t find a GM, find a good safe person you know and trust and tell them!
Alcohol/drugs should NEVER be combined with weapons! (if you see me fighting with a blade drunk, take it off me, smack me up the back of the head and tell me off for being a tool pls )
Is it worth considering that your interest, then, is not primarily LARPing, and you would perhaps be more comfortable at a different type of hobby, one where ooc socializing is the main attraction? [/quote]
Certainly, I am more than happy to wander off and find another hobby, but i am not sure that is really the attitude you want to take towards the LARPing community as a whole.
If you note I mentioned it is a Part of what makes a game fun and based on the comments below it is a part a lot of people enjoy, kicking back with a beer or two and relaxing. I think it is much better for the community to find a way to reduce the problem rather than taking away an enjoyable part of the experience.
I agree, the drinkers should step up. If they can’t organise some rice and dahl, then they probably couldn’t organise a piss-up in a brewery, if they can’t do that, well…
Given that Crucible has a bar setting, it might be possible to brew mid/low alcohol beer and serve that as the standard drink from the bar. We’d need a licence, but the cost of it - $63 - , plus the brewing cost would be made back by charging a nominal fee for the beer e.g $2 drink. I have a 200l brewing barrel and a fair amount of experience brewing beer, but I haven’t done low/mid strength beer before, not sure how easy that is.
Is it worth considering that your interest, then, is not primarily LARPing, and you would perhaps be more comfortable at a different type of hobby, one where ooc socializing is the main attraction? [/quote]
Certainly, I am more than happy to wander off and find another hobby, but i am not sure that is really the attitude you want to take towards the LARPing community as a whole.
[/quote]
Yeah… if this was the attitude taken by the LARPing community I’d probably gap it as well.
Personally, I love to have a few drinks in the evening at a larp. For some characters I find it very much the in-character* thing to do.
I think the best way to deal with this is for the people who went too far to take a voluntary 12-month break from drinking at events. I think that culturally as a group that should be our standard way to deal with this.
It can be hard when others are drinking not to have a few. But I’m happy to stay up late and not drink with you if that helps. I don’t need to be drunk to do silly things late at night, like fire walking and skinny-dipping. I can do that sober
EDIT: If you get drunk enough you’re falling out of bed or vomiting or becoming aggressive and you aren’t sorry enough to take 12 months off, I for one won’t miss you at an event.
- Not so much In Teonn where I’m currently playing a vegetarian non-drinking character.
Yeah… if this was the attitude taken by the LARPing community I’d probably gap it as well.[/quote]
I am very much against Walter’s sentiment and I am thankful that it is not the sentiment taken by the community. This is about protecting the organisers and players, not making people unwelcome because they like to drink and socialize, this is a social hobby.
A lot of the suggestions requiring ‘wardens’ or what amounts to the alcohol police are fundamentally problematic. It wsucks being the ‘fun police’. Last Teonn I got to be the person that had to go around tell those still partying around the bunk areas to move somewhere else at 2:30am. Another Teonn it was Tigger that had to go have a word to a griup revellers at 4am in the middle of the tents - most were reasonable, some gave him grief.
“Personal responsibilty” shouldn’t come from an outside source informing you of when you’ve crossed the line or when its time to go to bed. For a cultural shift, we need everyone to realise that when you drink too much or party loudly where people are sleeping or hurt yourself etc, you’re impacting your friends’ enjoyment. Your friends don’t enjoy having to go, “Hey mate, you’re drunk, go to bed.”
I’m glad this topic is being brought up. I wrote a whole chunk on this in response but I’m basically reiterating what others have wisely pointed out. So I’ll sum up instead.
I like to drink. I like people to have the freedom of choice, to drink or not. I do not like it when people take the freedom to be selfish and careless.
Socializing and relaxing after a long day is fun, doubly so with mates you don’t get to see often. I don’t want to see that taken away.
I’m super grateful to all my players for round 6 of Chimera. My game was not at all easy for tired people and they all gave 100% to the game. That was fantastic. I’m glad I don’t have to gripe about the drinking from a GM perspective.
We are (mostly) all adults. We all have the potential to be silly. That is why we are good roleplayers. We also have the potential to be responsible. That is what makes us good social drinkers - or should. I recognize that some people require one or two drinks to relax around certain people/types of people when they do not have a character to hide behind - this is fine. We shouldn’t need parental types coming and telling us how to behave. If we do, then we shouldn’t drink. Simple as that.
So to sum up: Responsibility or restrictions. I’m on the opinion of culprits be judged. Not the society be punished for things other people do.
Note to Crucible:
I’d not be a fan of JUST the tavern. I like the idea of where food is provided. Small IC gatherings where people are drinking and eating in character around a fire or in a tent should be permitted. Naturally you’d want something where if the group got too drunk where it spoiled or had the potential to spoil the game or people’s experience then that group (all present) should lose the privilege from then on to do more drinking IC that is away from the Tavern area. But as I said, we’re all adults and one person spoiling it for others is just not fun. I’d hate to be that person, not out of shame, but as Anna said, the social implications.
EDITED: the note to crucible sounds a bit hypocritical given the culprits comment above: in small IC social groups it is easier for mates to point out to each other IC or OOC they are going too far. That is why they would all be responsible - where as people not involved with people in larger events summarily all being banned or restricted seems unfair *hope that makes sense.
[quote=“Mike Curtis”]
The solution to the above is to eat FOOD when you start drinking. My suggestion would be for those who wish to engage in OOC Late Night Drinks to take responsibility to ensure there is a good supply of food available. Something like rice and dahl would be perfect (cheap, easy to make, filling and, being vegan and non-gluten, ticks the vast majority of dietary requirements).
I would make this food available to anyone, drinking or not, but MANDATORY if you want to drink. No eating = no drinking, simple as that. Of course, this would not preclude people bringing more varied food to share (which is what already happens). To ensure that the food is supplied, I recommend making it part of the event’s shopping list, although I would expect those who want to hang out in the late night area to take responsibility re cooking, serving, cleanup etc.[/quote]
I appreciate this is a good idea in principle…but if you can spot someone is drinking and ask them to eat food, you can also spot them drinking and advise moderation which achieves the same thing.
At the Teonn games there is certainly no shortage of food brought out by players at both the Tavern and the Firepit areas.
For me I think the solution is threefold.
The ambulance at the bottom of the cliff with game bans as well as name and shame lists and other social punishments.
The discussion at the start of the game and possibly at the evening meal to remind people to be sensible to try and head off trouble.
A culture of looking out for your friends. If you see a friend drinking a bit fast, go and tell them to ease off. If people are starting to look intoxicated talk to them before they become a problem. We are all there, we should all be looking out for one another and this should be an encouraged part of the community.
Its less of an issue if a player misses a morning at a weekend-long campaign larp - if they miss plot, that’s their own business. But at something like Chimera or Hydra, other people are depending on them to turn up and fill their roles. It affects not just the player, but everyone in their game (and everyone who wanted a place in that game, but lost out in favour of a pisshead). And if you’re in a vital role, then it can make the game non-viable unless a last-minute replacement is found.
(If you’re miss a morning crewing, then you’re just not doing what you’re there to do, and similarly letting down the people who are depending on you to play your parts).
In short, its not just about you.
I agree with a lot of the points already made. I too, like to have a drink at the end of the evenings play. I don’t want events to be dry. I also don’t want to see any of our organisers and gms down at the police station explaining to the police why someone died at an event. There’s no doubt it’s getting messier every year. It’d be nice to see some changes in the level of personal responsibility so that putting yet more pressure on a small number of people to ‘police’ things isn’t necessary. Bans, curfews and sheriffs, I guess it’s going to have to happen, but it’s never any fun to have to be the one having to round up your friends and send them to bed.
Leaving out a small number of idiots who really are out to deliberately get smashed (yes, alright, a “go home and dont’ come back next game” ban is in order for them, it’s not what we’re here for), I’d say that the empty stomach thing is a valid concern. It is a very long time from dinner until night’s end at most larps and it’s easier to overdo it when you’re hungry.
At some Wolfgang and Teonn games a lot of people have brought bread, crackers, dips, cheese, salads or cakes, biscuits, chocolate) to share after the official events of the night end. Its even more sociable than just drinking and I can’t remember anyone around those tables getting really drunk. Again it comes down to personal responsibility. One or two people can’t, and shouldn’t be expected to, bring enough food to feed everyone. If you’re a late night socialiser, bring some food too, and remember there are two evenings.
I don’t larp as much as I’d like, so I feel like I probably shouldn’t be contributing to major larp discussions. But I just wanted to say that part of the reason I don’t come often is because of my experiences with a few people that have been drinking and the decisions some of them have made as a result.
My biggest problem was a case of inappropriate behaviour going on in the cabin I was trying to sleep in, which I actually found shocking and offensive. It enough of a horrible experience that when contemplating weekend larps, it now always comes into consideration whether I want to risk going through that again, and it’s the same for a couple of friends that attended with me.
As a shy and sometimes extremely anxious person, I can see the appeal of having a drink to relax and settle into character. But I 100% would support a total ban of alcohol at larps.
But also we’re all adults. People know how to drink responsibly, but they aren’t. I don’t think putting in rules such as ‘you have to eat in order to drink’ or ‘GMs need to watch them’ needs to be necessary. If this is up for discussion, it needs to almost be leaning toward ‘if you can’t drink responsibly like an adult, you’re uninvited from attending.’
If organisers want someone to be the fun police for alcohol at events, I’m happy* to do that. Just let me know for the event.
- Happy is probably the wrong word. Willing, maybe?