Yet another newbie question: Physical contact in LARPs

Community Larp discussion
#1

(more specifically Teonn but I thought the topic relevant enough to be able to be discussed in general terms also)

First off, a disclaimer: The whole reason I bring up this topic is because I was re-reading the Mind’s Eye Theatre rules for World of Darkness the other day, and being definitely very American in tone (which is to say, cover your butt first and have fun second…) it says things like “never touch another person without their permission”.

Now, I totally understand why such a rule is in place. There are people who simply don’t like to be touched by other people. I was thinking, though, that those sorts of people - generally - wouldn’t be the sorts of people who would go to a LARP in the first place. In reality, and not in some theoretical, paranoid, hair-trigger land, what are the general guidelines for physical contact? I am talking - and I would hope this is obvious - solely about in-character interactions. The group down here in Dunedin is pretty steady and we’ve all been roleplaying together for quite a few years now, with the odd addition and subtraction of members, of course. As a result we “know” what the limits of physical contact are, even though they’ve never really been spelt out. However, I’ll be going up to Teonn later this year and was wondering if the conventions there are much different than here. For some concrete examples, what from this list would most people say is OK, OK with permission, or not OK? (Some of the examples are extreme, but a lot of them I’m genuinely not sure about).
[ul][li]A handshake[/li]
[li]A greeting hug[/li]
[li]A friendly clap/slap on the shoulder[/li]
[li]The same, but on the butt[/li]
[li]Sitting down beside someone and giving them a hug b/c they look sad[/li]
[li]A kiss on the hand[/li]
[li]A kiss on the forehead/cheek[/li]
[li]A shove (not hard enough to make the target fall over) in the middle of an argument[/li]
[li]A much harder shove, such that they do fall over[/li][/ul]
For the record I’d be perfectly fine if anyone did any of these to me, but in general I’d assume the last one at least is frowned on if not banned completely.

What are people’s thoughts?

Viperion

#2

Here’s my opinion, and I’d put myself at the conservative end of physical touching. For me, touching needs to make sense in character, but can add to the depth of feeling in a situation.

#3

Some of these are situational as well. Try to consider setting and character meaning. A greeting hug is fairly modern, depending on era of the game this might not be appropriate contact and have repercussions of an in game nature.

Most combat larps do not allow barging or shoving but a school yard style push on the shoulder would make sense in some circumstances. As long as you don’t create risk by doing so its ok. That being said, some players don’t mind physical contact and sometimes a little behind the scenes moment aside can be used to determine how you might represent a struggle which might actually involve a bit of wrestling and scuffling (but usually to a predetermined end).

In our recent larps I expect that I could be picked up and carried, theatrically restrained, loosely bound (as in I could remove bindings without hindrance), tended to in a pseudo medical fashion and surface searched (but not having my pockets dug into). Touching as above should be appropriate to the setting and circumstances. And I expect light (to medium) contact from larp weapons with appropriate care taken to not hit my head, neck or groin (and take care of my kidneys and joints).

I would not expect to be exposed, kissed fully or intimately, or groped. I would also not expect very personal contact (but then I am happily married).

Its not too hard to manage a realistic degree of physical contact in larp. Take your cues from whoever you are interacting with and don’t be afraid to ask briefly out of character if a certain action is ok. If done respectfully these levels of contact can really add a level of immersion to a game.

#4

As a general rule the best thing is to expect the same level of physical contact as in real life.

I usually run rules such that I expect that the only allowable physical contact between players is a light contact with a LRP safe weapon to a designated target area. Also I would expect similar contact that which Jared mentioned above. Anything beyond that is the players concerns.

So personally, for the situations that you gave;
A handshake - Acceptable but I’ll be checking your off hand.
A greeting hug - Only if you are cute
A friendly clap/slap on the shoulder - I’d be uncomfortable
The same, but on the butt - Expect an elbow in your solar plexus
Sitting down beside someone and giving them a hug b/c they look sad - possible, but if they looked uncomfortable I’d stop immediately, just like real life
A kiss on the hand - Again only if they look comfortable
A kiss on the forehead/cheek - Only if from previous encounters with them I think that they would be comfortable. Just like in real life.
A shove (not hard enough to make the target fall over) in the middle of an argument - Unacceptable. This would break the immersion as I would then have to decide whether it is a real fight or just part of the game.
A much harder shove - expect to regain conciousness in the recovery position . I reserve the right to defend myself in real life.

#5

As you’ve pointed out, some of the rules we see about not touching are from a very paranoid and litigious USA.

Having said that, I rather like the definition that Alista said. If it’s acceptable in real life then, it’s generally acceptable in a LARP.

BUT, you can change all that with permission… If I’m LARPing with people who I know, then just about anything up to pushing me over goes. AND I’m OK with the pushing me over if they give me 5 seconds warning. At that point it’s down to play acting.

If I was larping with someone I don’t know, then I would expect to have a little conversation between us about acceptable limits. It has to be mutual.

As others have stated, a 30 second conversation OOC is completely valid. Different people have different limits.

And each LARP has it’s own expectations.

#6

Thanks for the replies thus far :slight_smile:

As far as repercussions/right to defend yourself: Of course! If - for the sake of argument, not because I plan to do it :wink: - I give you a shove I don’t expect you to stand meekly there and say “please sir may I have another” (unless you have a very weird character…), I expect you to shove me back or draw steel :smiling_imp: I’m just curious to know whether such behaviour, rude and boorish as it is, is allowable. As for “only do it if you’d do it in real life” - well, my characters are not me. They don’t behave like me. If it would be in their character to kiss someone on both cheeks when meeting someone for the first time (not something I’m known for!) I’m trying to gauge whether that would be generally acceptable in-world, and also if the players would be comfortable with it.

It’s just something I was thinking about and wondering if different regions have different standards of “you can do this witout permission”.

Ninja Edit: I hope it goes without saying, but I guess it bears repeating, that all contact of any sort must be mutual - but I guess what I’m really trying to get at is what level of contact can be assumed to be mutual, and at the other end of the spectrum, what level of contact can never be allowed, even if it is mutually agreed on?

Interesting replies so far, keep it up!

Cheers,
Viperion

#7

Really what we are talking about here is the dichotomy between the game world and the real world. Naturally there are things that your character would do that you might not, or might be unacceptable in the real world.

But at a meta-level, we ARE in the real world, and some things DO cross the line. Frankly I wouldn’t expect to be groped by ANYONE. That’s just too far. But, given permission, clasping someones thigh in a suggestive manner would do as well.

A classic example in the past game of Teonn. I, that is, my character had gotten a bit squiffy on a glass of wine, or two, or maybe three, and was complaining about being a light weight. Two elemental (ladies) decided to test this theory out and tried to lift me, concluding that a lightweight I was not… We had no discussion about this, and I had no problem with it. But we knew each other, so it simply wasn’t an issue. This might not have been acceptable without a little discussion between people who didn’t know each other.

Lets face it, if you are going to physically push someone around, you really want to have at least introduced yourself first… :slight_smile:

As a final example, in a game of Wolfgangs a year or so ago, there was an incident that wound up involving Bryn and Anthony actually wrestling on the ground. Bryn knocked him over and they tussled for a bit. I wasn’t close enough to hear at the start, but I assume that Bryn actually asked permission to do that, and Anthony said yes.

Mutual agreement is the watchword here.

#8

I think this is very valid when it comes down to certain actions. When I consider my points on a shove (and other peoples) being pushed around always comes down to safety first. When people fall over unexpectedly even a drop on your arse can injure you. But a theatrical in character rant followed by a well telegraphed and exaggerated shove is hardly going to be considered as an OOC threat. And theres no reason that I don’t mutter under my breath during such a confrontation “Now push me back and I’ll fall over and we’ll fake a tussle for 30 seconds”. If they say yes then theres no problem. If no, well you think of something else.

#9

So true. In time mutual agreement grows too. Once you know your fellow larpers and trust them and have the confidence then such an agreement can be gained with a look.

Just don’t chase Vanya over any railings… because the only mutual agreement the ground has with you is gravity.

#10

I think once you get comfortable with the other larpers a lot of these things come naturally. As long as you are not endangering someone which the latter once could possibly do, it is ok to lose yourself into your character. People will generally play a character that won’t push their comfort zone (or if they do then they willingly want to push their comfort zone). If someone is playing a quite happy-go-lucky guy then he probably won’t mind a friendly slap on the back. But I think the rule is if your unsure then ask. When you are new its hard to know what boundaries are but those of us who have been around the block a few times are more than happy to answer a quiet quick out of character “Is this ok?” moment.

If something makes another player uncomfortable they will probably voice it. I find that Larpign brings this out even more vividly than in real life. Most people will be quite vocal if something annoys them or makes them uncomfortable.

#11

As an American who was very used to the OMG don’t touch people (or drink alcohol anywhere near a RPing event) I was surprised that these rules didn’t seem to apply here.

And so far what I’ve experienced are players being responsible with both. Hurrah.

It’s all about context, trust and communication. And I think it’s pretty apparent when you think you might have reason to “get physical” with another char which gives you opportunity for that all-important OOC chat to set boundaries - even if those boundaries are “sky’s the limit!”

#12

[quote=“joker”]As a final example, in a game of Wolfgangs a year or so ago, there was an incident that wound up involving Bryn and Anthony actually wrestling on the ground. Bryn knocked him over and they tussled for a bit. I wasn’t close enough to hear at the start, but I assume that Bryn actually asked permission to do that, and Anthony said yes.

Mutual agreement is the watchword here.[/quote]

Aw I thought you were going to cite when Alyssa grabbed Duncan and kissed him fiercely!!! :smiley:

#13

As someone who is very comfortable with physical contact I have absolutely no problem with people groping me, shoving me hard, even punching me. With the people who know this it has meant that I was able to have some fantastic roleplaying moments. A kiss at a wedding, Muppet physically trying push Pierre away as I struggled against him, being slapped, hard, for being an asshole and many more. With people whom I do not know, I expect that before they do things like that, that I would get a warning of some kind from them first, this could be before the game even starts so that they have my Ok to do what they wish. When dealing with other people I will only go so far as I know that they are comfortable with but I will still restrain myself in most occasions just in case.

Physical contact in larps gives it a fantastic immersive quality which is completely ruined when you feel uncomfortable with the person in question touching you. So I am a big fan of anything with permission philosophy. I much prefer the majority of the community knowing that they already have my permission to do go for it with me, it makes it a better game for me I find.

#14

Communication is great, even though that needs careful approach too. Some people may get uncomfortable if you ask them for permission for something they don’t want, and if they are shy they may give permission just because they think it would be “not nice” to say no. So watch the response.
Also, of course, it’s different with different people, so if person A is fine with person B groping them or throwing them around, it doesn’t mean they would be fine with any other person doing that.
The good thing is to be relaxed and avoid any pressure, again same as in real life, it would make people more willing to do all sorts of physical contacts like hugs.

#15

I think it relies on your relationship in the first place and how much you know of the person.

As long as it makes sense for your character then I think the following:

A handshake [color=#0000FF]Totaly Ok…I mean seriously[/color]

A hug [color=#0000FF]if your new to the community I probably wouldn’t as I’m not sure, but if I know you[/color]

A friendly clap/slap on the shoulder [color=#0000FF]Yeah ok as long as your not too rough with some people[/color]

The same, but on the butt OK [color=#0000FF]I’d avoid this unless you know them and their partner well enough (or they are not around)[/color]

Sitting down beside someone and giving them a hug b/c they look sad [color=#0000FF]same as a hug in general[/color]

A kiss on the hand [color=#0000FF]i think most are ok as theres a fair amount of warning in this action of taking the hand, turning and raising it…if anyone objects they can move their hand away[/color]

A kiss on the forehead/cheek [color=#0000FF]Actual kiss, you’d be running your chances with some in the community unless you know them. Though you can always “fake it” though and I think most would find that acceptable.

Kiss on the lips is to be avoided except in VERY particular situations, best to fake a cheek in most cases on that one[/color]

A shove (not hard enough to make the target fall over) in the middle of an argument ok if you’re that sort of character, but expect repercussions. [color=#0000FF]I wouldn’t except with certain people and even then limit the force of the shove and watch the enviroment, people can trip. Best to avoid it unless you are SURE. You can achive a similar effect with an accusitory finger poke to an armoured area…much safer[/color]

A much harder shove, such that they do fall over [color=#0000FF]NOPE, no no no, never. Too many dangers. They could break themselves, props, set peices, the immersion of other people checking the player is ok, loose glasses, Punch the hell out of you, knock into other people[/color]

#16

That’s true i’ve had some great moments where a character had grabbed and hugged me while dipping me in replace of a kiss (gaffy as a gypsy in wolfgangs) and it was great because even if people were ok with kissing its always way more awkward then it would be IC. Whereas faking things can be loads of fun and also hilarious (remember nikki and hamish behind a tree as a wolfgangs day game :smiley:) and creates a great experience without crossing any boundaries. Unless of course your not ok with hugging, then i would steer clear of this.

#17

It’s been interesting reading what people are OK with. For me, if I don’t know you, touching me anywhere that’s not my arms will seriously piss me off. But if I do know you, I quite like hugs. And even then, I’d be uncomfortable kissing in character, or being physically pushed over, or groped, ever, and I seriously thoroughly hate being touched on my back or the back of my neck without forewarning (I’m looking at you, compulsive rearrangers of clothing tags!)

#18

[quote=“Stephanie”]It’s been interesting reading what people are OK with.[/quote]QFT and although I probably shouldn’t be I’m a little surprised by it. I guess as has been quite rightly pointed out in this very thread, the watchword(s) are “with permission” as everyone really does have wildly varying degrees of what’s acceptable. My only worry is that is removes a little of the immersion when you have to stop and ask if is OK but hey we’re not here to make other people feel uncomfortable :slight_smile:

Viperion

#19

I’ve been in the community enough that with the majority of people in the community that I tend to have major relationships with IC I know whats acceptable and what is not Eg. I’d be fine trying to strong arm vanya or gaffy (with various degrees of failure :slight_smile: ), pat certain people on the butt, I know who the “huggy” people in the community are so are commfortable hugging them and who i could “play gay” with…and if I dont know I take the cautious approch.

The main thing is touch only if your sure. And if your not don’t. If you make people uncomfortable they will avoid you in roleplaying situations and you’ll miss out.

Try expanding you scope…there are other things that show and emphisise the same emotion (lowering you self down slightly, leaning away, leaning forward, drawing a weapon or “group displays” of solidarity to show that you have others that support your point or you support others, or sometimes doing nothing when people would expect you too) that physical contact can…use those with the majority of people. This also allows you to more powerfuly play emotions with those you can use phsyical contact on.

#20

I suspect my own limits would depend on the situation, but in general…