Magic -- "Point and Click"

Community Larp discussion
#61

In Teonn, we have tried very hard to create a world with varied and interesting magical abilities where not everyone necessarily knows what your ability is. We went through a lot of effort to create these abilities, not only as being purely combat but having a role playing aspect to them as well (we tried to give everyone a useful ability according their background) and some abilities are purely non combat abilities. We tried to make the abilities as balanced as possible, however this is a lot harder than you might think. The way we have written some of the abilities, is not always the way the player interprets the ability and they often use the ability in ways we didn’t imagine. As issues with powers have arisen, we have modified powers to balance them, and we will keep doing so.

To a degree, we do trust players not to abuse their abilities, and we hope that if a character kills another, or abuses their powers in some way, that the other characters will punish them accordingly. However, Teonn is a world where no one should be under estimated as you never know what abilities they have up their sleeves. Tread cautiously in a dark fantasy world, where war and hostilities have raged for eons.

#62

At the end of the day anything is better than nothing. “Sleep” and I’ve already lost is rediculous especialy if it is in fact a spore type ability and can’t even be stopped by gagging him.

At least if it takes a few seconds to cast and there is something visable happening then we can stop it in a range of ways. And if he actualy had to cast it then a gag might be an option. Or silence spell etc.

And as to the hope no one will abuse there powers does that mean you’d even consider giving me an instant death power? Even if I promise not to abuse it? Because the sleep one basicaly is an instant death one. The fact it gives him the choice doesn’t make it less powerful. I’ve always though more options equals more power. Not less.

#63

Also it occurs to me that sleep basicaly killed 2 players with no defense. How many players does one have to auto kill before one could be said to be abusing a power?

#64

Before I respond to this, I would like to point out that we agree that this ability has proven to be more powerful than it should be and it will be modified.

Now can I just say that sleep is not what killed these two particular characters. They would most likely have died anyway. Sleep is what got them caught without a fight and probably saved the lives of several other PCs as well. Had these two been NPCs then I bet there wouldnt have been as much of a rucus. Also thsi incident is the first time this power has been used as far as i know.

#65

No it didn’t. It enabled players to tie them up. Then they were woken up so they could be walked back to the keep. The big one raged and was subsequently put down. He was moved on 0 hp and died of his injuries. The little one wouldn’t have died where she did if it weren’t for the fact she killed Morgana on the way back to the keep (proving she was far from helpless, even whilst bound).

#66

Thanks Nikki, I’m glad to hear that.

Nikki, you’re right, sleep didn’t kill them. But I’m sure you’ll appreciate the distinction is a subtle one that may be lost on the players who died. “Caught without a fight” when you are in fact playing fighters, who are armed and ready for bear, sword drawn, facing your hostile opponent really isn’t much different to being killed outright. Your life at that point only remains as long as the charity of your enemy.

As for saving PC lives … I guess we’ll never know that. But there were a few reasonably tough nuts facing back the other direction. I doubt we would have come out unhurt, but I think we would have taken them down without loss.

#67

sure it didnt technically kill them but it did defeat them absolutely,utterly and without question.

I think people are sore in this case because its an “i win” button if you will,there also annoyed because theres no possible defence against it and feeling more than slightly ripped off if you picked something other than elemental and to a lesser degree human,

at the same time yeah painting with a wide brush is hardly a good idea im sure plenty of their powers are completely reasonable but from the sounds theres enough overbearing powers to cause some level of complaint and unease (magnis 20 damage or whatever fireball for example

next to things of that level for example i may as well bend over and prepare the lube if i ever had a disagreement with one of these characters for whatever reason as 2 extra levels of tough or a bit of extra money (morkin and elvern racial bonuses) are nowhere near equivalent and there IS plenty of reason/interest for pvp interactions so these things do need to be taken into consideration

at the same time i sympathize with the gms they wanted unique powers special to each character(well some of them), thats cool, an amazingly difficult task but cool,

#68

Point of fact, Snotmee was actually brought back to the keep, tried, and properly executed after slaying Morgana. When it had previously been decreed that she could be killed at whim by the guard captain since she was already found guilty of murder.

People keep going on about how unbalanced and unfair this power is, and it certainly looks like it is going to be altered as a consequence. But I would like, as a first hand witness, to make a few points clear.

  • The two characters in question had already killed many PCs and important NPCs, some of which were first time players only a few hours into their first game.
  • They were not killed in their sleep. Zog’s continued raging and resistance was what got him killed, and as no one actually finishing blowed him, it was an RP decision on the player’s part to actually die (though I guess it was an obvious one given the rain of blows to subdue him when he raged again).
  • The sleep effect did not stop them taking yet another PC life.
  • Other combat PCs were prepared to take them on. There were certainly enough of us there for the fight. But they had indeed chosen a good battle-ground, and more death was probable. Would this power be under such scrutiny if someone had died before its use?

I know the full limits of Vidarr’s power, and I also know that there was a chance that the two PCs could have chosen a spot where it would not have worked. IC and OOC, I am grateful they were stopped so neatly, if not completely without bloodshed. Will any of you be damning such a power, if it ended up saving your neck in game? A killing blow takes less time to deliver than this sleep spell, and there are plenty of bandits.

Dylan, stop shitstirring. Bring any of this up in game rather than just stirring people OOC, and there will be one irrate fire elemental.

#69

In addition:

Chant of Death - After chanting for 10 seconds the War Mage can point to an opponent who is incapacitated or unconscious on the ground and call “Death”. That opponent dies as if they had been finishing blowed. You must be within sight and hearing distance to use this spell.

Now THAT’S an insta-kill, and can be used across a field with the target protected by twenty or more.

#70

Was downpowered after the first game to the point where in a one on one fight it would be exactly counterbalanced by your 2 levels of tough.

I think the ST’s have done a brave act in trying to give out individual powers, and in every system there will always be power imbalances (look at all the munches in other published games). I think as players we have to avoid abusing these imbalances, just as the ST’s have taken steps to rectify the imbalances when they have come up.

I think that everybody is in agreement with Derek here that “Point and Click” Kill Powers are not how we would personally like to be taken down, and from Nikki’s comments the ST’s are taking this on board.

#71

I believe I have a legitimate concern. I am not just “shitstirring” Do you really believe that his power or the other ones I have brought up are balanced with the other races? The fact you messed up and allowed Snotme to kill after you had taken her prisoner doesn’t have anything to do with the power. It is not a mitigting effect in the slightest. You defeated 2 of them instantly with an unbalanced power and then you let them kill again.

As to bringing it up IC I’m not sure I follow this arguement. The power is a broken one. Should I complain to the all mother or something? Of course this is an OOC issue. IC reguardless of how stupid your powers are I just worry about how you use it.

#72

Argument’s over, guys. We’ve reached a conclusions, the STs have heard it, now we go away and trust they will deal with it.

Cheryl, that’s not appropriate, and personal attacks are against the rules of Diatribe. It is the mechanics in question being discussed here, not the in character situation specific to Adam and Zara’s characters. Please do not post like that in the future :slight_smile:

#73

[quote=“AbCcCoxDsEHSoeVVa”]
As to bringing it up IC I’m not sure I follow this arguement. The power is a broken one. Should I complain to the all mother or something? Of course this is an OOC issue. IC reguardless of how stupid your powers are I just worry about how you use it.[/quote]

Well, you could try legislating against it. :smiling_imp:

#74

It was not an RP decision on my part to die - I was following the rules of the game. First Aid allows an incapacitated player to be moved - I was not first Aided - either I cannot be moved or I die. As you seemed pritty keen to move me there was only one logical solution.

If you had such an issue with it perhaps you should “Bring any of this up in game rather than just stirring people OOC”

#75

It was not an RP decision on my part to die - I was following the rules of the game. First Aid allows an incapacitated player to be moved - I was not first Aided - either I cannot be moved or I die. As you seemed pritty keen to move me there was only one logical solution.

If you had such an issue with it perhaps you should “Bring any of this up in game rather than just stirring people OOC”[/quote]

Sorry Adam, first aid allows the player to move, not to be moved. There is no bleed out rule in Teonn and according to the rules, just being moved is not going to make you die. We assumed you decided for RP reasons to die and we were fine with this decision from an RP point as you made it yourself.

#76

It was not an RP decision on my part to die - I was following the rules of the game. First Aid allows an incapacitated player to be moved - I was not first Aided - either I cannot be moved or I die. As you seemed pritty keen to move me there was only one logical solution.

If you had such an issue with it perhaps you should “Bring any of this up in game rather than just stirring people OOC”[/quote]

Sorry Adam, first aid allows the player to move, not to be moved. There is no bleed out rule in Teonn and according to the rules, just being moved is not going to make you die. We assumed you decided for RP reasons to die and we were fine with this decision from an RP point as you made it yourself.[/quote]

First Aid 2 Stabilizes an incapacitated character in order to allow them to be moved to safer area. This does not heal any hit points. Each time you use First Aid, you must apply a 2m x 30cm bandage to each patient.

TO ALLOW THEM TO BE MOVED TO A SAFER AREA.

not to allow them to move.

#77

The intention was not for a character to die if they are moved after incapacitation. You are right, the wording does read like that but it was not what we intended. It will be fixed in the rules overhaul.

#78

Derek’s point is valid, regardless of the exact nature of the situation.[/quote]

Not saying it isn’t. Hence the winky. Its tongue in cheek.

#79

[quote=“Xcerus”]
TO ALLOW THEM TO BE MOVED TO A SAFER AREA.

not to allow them to move.[/quote]

Glad this wasn’t my interpretation - or that of dozens of others players… who would all be quite dead if they were moved without first aid…

#80

Its not so much interpretation. He read exactly what it says. I have to back him on this one.