LARP Element Precedence

Community Larp discussion
#21

Immersion is (to me) vitally important in a Larp.

I believe that the best games worldwide do one of two things, first make a huge effort on creating the right venue to play in.

Here’s an example, Dummnoni Chronicles, widely regarded as one of the best Larp events in the world. The reason for this is a huge investment of time and money in creating an ‘authentic’ iron age settlement with barricades and a long house.

dumnonni.com/

youtube.com/watch?v=Y0Vw82GG … re=relatedÅ

We can’t do this in New Zealand, (well of course we could but we probably understandably won’t).

The other option is to work with what you have.

People have run some amazing games at Turnbull House here in Wellington. The downstairs is wood paneled and has an olde worlde library, Anna ran the over subscribed Masquerade on Fleet Street, and I think you’d be hard pushed to find a significantly better venue. This meant the game felt instantly more real. No need to un-imagine desks, and white boards or scout camp signs.

With a small amount of effort the more modern upstairs floor was turned into what looked like a wedding reception, for Jenni and Paul’s very well received Super Hero wedding reception game. Again once you were in the game the fact it felt like you were at a real wedding reception helped to immerse people into the game.

At Kapcon this year Jackie ran a fantastic game set in a van, and ran it in a van. Perfect. Such a simple way to achieve the ideal setting for that game.

I believe the more immersive a game is the less likely you are to drop out of character and the more likely you are to achieve those amazing moments of being deep in character (whilst still remembering it’s just make believe…).

#22

Actually, I would agree on Immersion being rather important, as it’s called LARP (Life Action Role Playing as we all should know =3).
The important part here would be the Role Playing part, and it’s easiest to play a role, if your enviroment is the same as your role would be in.
The more your surrounding seems like a roman villa, the more likely you are to act like a roman in a villa (Just an example).
Game aspects make it possible for everyone to be what they want, without being limited to physical or mental limitations of your own self.
Player Agency, well, People love to meddle with things. Why do you think when there’s a button saying “Don’t Push” you just have to push it? Because you want to interact =D and see what happens.
Narrative is important aswell though, since that basically gives a direction, and prevents people from getting bored, or not knowing where to go, though I believe narrative should mostly have a guiding function (Though, I haven’t been an actual player in a LARP yet, so that opinion might change).

#23

Immersion isn’t about your surroundings. Props and location help with immersion, but immersion can happen in any location. Larp without some sort of immersion is basically just a boardgame…

#24

It’s not just about your surroundings, but they are still important. If you’re supposed to be in a medieval setting and you have to walk through a carpark full of cars, it detracts from the immersion.

LARP without immersion is only a boardgame if the rest of the LARP is focused on the game aspect of it. If the LARP had a decent amount of RP, it could conceivably be just tabletop if it lacked immersion (as an example).

#25

[quote=“amphigori”]Sorry, not quite sure what the point of this is. It’s very long and I started skimming toward the end. But it seems like you’re trying to come up with some kind of fail-proof, master-formula for successful LARP. There’s no such thing.

But here’s a short, simple formula that seems to have worked for many people who can regularly be counted on to run high-quality games people have fun at:

Write or select a game you’d enjoy bringing to life. Run said game. If players had fun game = success. If not, use constructive feedback to create a different/better game. Repeat.[/quote]

Hear hear.

#26

A Larp without immersion but with roleplay is tabletop, what do you mean by that Nick?

BTW here’s an example of what I think of when I’m talking about Larps without a decent level of immersion…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw

#27

Y’know, to me the biggest difference between live and tabletop roleplaying is how the information circulates. For the former it’s Chinese whispers and disinformation, and you have to work to get specific pieces of information understood by everyone; in the latter, everyone by default knows what’s going on and you have to work to keep secrets.

#28

[quote=“Tetrajak”]
LARP without immersion is only a boardgame if the rest of the LARP is focused on the game aspect of it. If the LARP had a decent amount of RP, it could conceivably be just tabletop if it lacked immersion (as an example).[/quote]

Wait, are you saying tabletop doesn’t have immersion?

#29

[quote=“Bryn”]
BTW here’s an example of what I think of when I’m talking about Larps without a decent level of immersion…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw[/quote]

Immersion is about perspective. LARP is not a spectator sport - it will look shit to anyone watching it from an outside point of view. But if you are in the game and it has been set up correctly then you should be able to imagine the situation.

youtube.com/watch?v=8NE5elL30w4

at the end of the day - this video is of two guys hitting each other with bamboo canes. Without the effects it would not be famous - with the effects it is. That doesn’t mean that they need the effects to pretend they have lightsabres.

#30

A Larp without immersion but with roleplay is tabletop, what do you mean by that Nick?[/quote]

A LARP that lacks a particular aspect becomes depends entirely on what the other prominent features of that particular LARP is. Just pointing out that there’s more than one option for what any particular LARP turns into when you take away immersion (or anything else, for that matter).

#31

Xcerus said

We’ve had plenty of spectators before. We usually just call them peasants and dress them up with the fourth wall.

From practical experience, some players like immersion. For a much larger group of players, immersion is less important. I have found that the players that strive for full immersion drive the majority of players out of their game. Thankfully we can have more than one campaign.

#32

Yes, clearly the drive for immersion has driven away so many players that we only had 120 at Teonn.

But each to their own

#33

A matter of perspective I guess. I’ve found that players that strive for full immersion add great value to the game and enhance the experience of other players.

However, from my experience most players who strive for full immersion concede you won’t GET full immersion but try their hardest to contribute as positively as they can.

Maybe you mean players who unreasonably demand full immersion and make life miserable over ever-little detail that isn’t “period” etc…

I’ve never come across someone like this. Sorry if you have. A shame the games that were affected to such a degree didn’t have a GM or players who felt comfortable talking to that rogue element and asking them to contribute more positively to the game.

#34

A paraphrase of a quote from Motat this weekend (courtesy of Derek), in the context of “the first rule of fighting with rubber swords”, although I think it applies well as “the first rule of larp participation”:

“Do your best to make sure it’s fun for everyone.”

If you personally value immersion (or game, or narrative, or agency, or … ) over other aspects of larp, it doesn’t matter nearly so much if you’re conscious that not everyone shares your view, and participate with the intent of increasing everyone’s enjoyment of the game.

Sure, that’s a broad and (likely impossibly) lofty goal, to which many conditional statements and so forth could be attached, however as a core behaviour guide, I think it works well.

#35

For a population of 1.35 million that is not a lot. We used to get up to 30 off a population of 100,000. And that is taking into account a small group of players who were actively driving off people that just wanted to play for fun.

Edit: changed population from 1.2 to 1.35 million

#36

From experience 120 people out of 1.2 million seems a great number. The huge games in the UK end up with a couple of thousand players for 60 Million people, but really you can’t compare.

I think to have 120 people attending Teonn was an amazing turnout, and something the organisers should be really proud to have achieved.

#37

It’s probably just me but I still don’t understand what you mean. Can you spell it out in simple terms for me.

Thanks Nick.

#38

[quote=“Alista”][quote=“theotherphoenix”]
Yes, clearly the drive for immersion has driven away so many players that we only had 120 at Teonn.
[/quote]

For a population of 1.35 million that is not a lot. We used to get up to 30 off a population of 100,000. And that is taking into account a small group of players who were actively driving off people that just wanted to play for fun.

Edit: changed population from 1.2 to 1.35 million[/quote]

But we weren’t talking about the percentage of the population that larps, we were talking about “driving away players” by which I assume you mean people who already play. Given that in Auckland larp seems to be growing in numbers at the same time as it is growing in the quality of its props, costumes and immersion-helpful things like that, I take exception to your assertion that this drives people away. The evidence suggests otherwise.

#39

I’ve always struggled with the term ‘immersion’ as regards larp, because I think it means different things to different people.

Looking at dictionary definitions, I get phrases like:
“state of being deeply engaged or involved; absorption” or “concentrating on one course of instruction, subject, or project to the exclusion of all others for several days or weeks”

So when people are talking about “immersion” in larp, what I think they’re getting at is that they like to get so deeply engaged in the game that they kind of forget about everything else.

For people who enjoy character interaction the most, this may best be achieved by a high standard of costuming, an excellent venue a camp fire or candles and other people staying in character.

I’ve always struggled a bit with that kind of immersion. I like it, don’t get me wrong, but the number of moments where I’ve forgotten I’m a middle aged computer programmer running around playing dress up really are few and far between.

Combat on the other hand, really does allow me to get that level of total concentration. And as Adam points out with his star wars video, and Alista hints at, we don’t need everything to look perfect for this level of engagement.

I still remember one of my favorite battles I had about 26-27 years ago. It was just two kids on a narrow path in the NZ bush, in jeans and swandries fighting with the old round style of boffer sword covered in brown packaging tape. We were evenly matched and the battle went on for ages and we were both exhaused when it finished.

So I think we’re all talking about a similar thing here Immersion = engagement. But different people play for different reasons and engage in different ways.

#40

Ah yes, out comes the troll looking for a bite.

I’m sorry Alista, but some of us Aucklanders came down to your games many years ago so you’re going to have to up your “catchment area” area to include Auckland and not just the Waikato. Nice try though! :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp: