Frequency of Play - will we jump the shark?

Community Larp discussion
#61

Yeah that’s fair I think. I personally would love to make it down to Wellington for a Social Event every once in a while, or even a Daygame if it was fitting. I love the city and getting out of Auckland for a break, so I’m pretty keen on that being a thing that I can do every 6 months or so. I do think we need to be realistic - several factions of Aucklanders are almost entirely students, and they won’t be coming down to Wellington on anything approaching a regular basis. Some people struggle to afford Crucible full stop.

I really feel like a lot of these bad feelings can be solved just by chatting properly OOC. All the personal conversations I’ve had with people seem to end in us being pretty cordial with one another. I have a lot of Wellingtonian friends. Maybe we should just organise excuses to chat about things. Communication really works wonders when people are feeling isolated and marginalised.

#62

[quote=“Damocles”]
I really feel like a lot of these bad feelings can be solved just by chatting properly OOC. All the personal conversations I’ve had with people seem to end in us being pretty cordial with one another. I have a lot of Wellingtonian friends. Maybe we should just organise excuses to chat about things. Communication really works wonders when people are feeling isolated and marginalised.[/quote]

Definitely agreed. It might go some way towards easing the ‘365-says-a-year’ problem, too, but I think that one runs deeper. It’s a little alarming that a two-weekends-a-year game can not cool down until two days before Christmas, and then start up again two days afterwards. It is draining, especially when it involves a wall of notifications every time you go on facebook. It would be great to be able to look at it a few times a month, maybe twice a week in the lead-up to a session, and still be able to make heads or tails of it. I think in a game this size, that’s unlikely, but it’s always felt like a tangle of information that takes forever to sort out.

#63

I was just about to suggest that the feel-bads can probably be chased away if people socialised more between games with people of other factions. Not as a game thing; just socialising. Like friends do.

#64

I’m astonished by the claim that everyone was friends and all was sweet in the LARP community before Crucible came along. That sure as heck wasn’t my experience. And Crucible is FAR from the first factional game run in Auckland, though it is the first on this scale (it’s the first game of ANY kind run on this scale anywhere in New Zealand). There are some long standing issues with playstyle difference alone which have caused tensions, both for Crucible and in the past.

And I’m even more surprised to hear that anyone walking into Crucible, especially at a senior level, didn’t understand the intent for it to be more (MUCH more) than just two weekend games a year. This was NEVER going to be our grandfathers “flagship LARP”. Regardless of PC role there is every opportunity for players to take a step back and allow those who DO enjoy a higher level of engagement to take on the bulk of faction/personal action and between-game roleplaying. Heck it’s probably good to spread responsibility IC as well as spread the pressure OOC.

Reuben is absolutely right to point out that whatever “advantages” Auckland based factions might have is pure perception. But Fraser’s suggestion that ST sanctioned games should be treated the same way a day games is probably a good one. Though, given that it has little to no impact one way or the other I’d simply avoid that tag for any event I ran personally so that the people I wanted to attend could do so. It’d probably help with the perception issue though, which is the point.

#65

Yeah this is a really good point.

To claim these problems are the fault of Crucible is to pretend the great Bjarn incident never happened.

#66

Yeah this is a really good point.

To claim these problems are the fault of Crucible is to pretend the great Bjarn incident never happened.[/quote]

Bjarn incident aside (an event I remain happily unaware of), there’s no denying that the current level of discourse surrounding the game is particularly obnoxious. The scale of the game might have some impact on this - a lot more voices; a lot more opinions; a lot more dissent. But merely saying that this isn’t the first time this sort of thing has happened doesn’t say anything about what to do now that it’s driving people away from the game. It’s causing organisers to declare periods when they won’t have any contact with anybody, let alone just Crucible-related stuff.
This isn’t just ‘causing tensions’, man - it’s severely altering the way in which players are interacting. At best, it means that people will exhaust themselves on one game. At worst, it’ll crash the entire system.

#67

[quote=“musicforwolves”]
Bjarn incident aside (an event I remain happily unaware of), there’s no denying that the current level of discourse surrounding the game is particularly obnoxious. The scale of the game might have some impact on this - a lot more voices; a lot more opinions; a lot more dissent. But merely saying that this isn’t the first time this sort of thing has happened doesn’t say anything about what to do now that it’s driving people away from the game. It’s causing organisers to declare periods when they won’t have any contact with anybody, let alone just Crucible-related stuff.
This isn’t just ‘causing tensions’, man - it’s severely altering the way in which players are interacting. At best, it means that people will exhaust themselves on one game. At worst, it’ll crash the entire system.[/quote]

If you’re going to talk about solving the issue, and addressing the issue, then you can’t discredit where the issue has existed before. It happened in Teonn, and also a lot of players also dropped out of the game (Team Ovidian). So this is hardly unique to Crucible, it’s just fresh in the forefront. I daresay it wasn’t unique to Teonn either, it is a thing that keeps repeatedly happening.

However, I agree that a large part of the issue is that people aren’t really dealing well with moving from a united player base to a faction based one. The resolution isn’t going to be anything done out of character. You can’t suddenly abolish factions, they will continue to be a thing.

Factions need to work together in game to change the issues. And I mean full on, share every piece of information they have, work together in game. If people are not willing to do this, then this problem will never go away or change.

Either they need to accept that faction based gaming comes with its competitive issues, or they need to not be competitive at all and start working with the other factions.

Currently, nobody is doing that, so it is nobodies fault, nor is it any GMs fault, that there is that level of competitive dissonance.

#68

He may be correct to point out that mechanical advantages perceived in Auckland are non-existent, but there is an advantage which Auckland has. This is an advantage which cannot be squelched by the GMs, because it does not rely on them putting out extra information in Auckland. It is an advantage, in fact, which would exist even if there were no day games at all, as long as there is a larger player base in Auckland, who are interacting with a larger group of other players in between games than the Wellingtonians.

This is simply that this larger playerbase, while regularly interacting with each other, has more opportunity to share plot information, discuss it, understand it and progress it. Even if they have no chances between games to actually take actions to advance plot (which they do anyway, in the form of the factional downtime actions - for some plots), they would still come to the weekend games with a better understanding of plots, and thus be more able to affect the plots in the weekend game with less time, discussion and effort put into understanding and planning on the spot.

This is an effect which the GMs cannot stop - even saying ‘there are no canon interactions outside of games’ would not actually stop people from talking to each other IC. That would, at best, cause people to talk about it OOC and then pretend they’ve talked about it IC, which would be awful for continuity of RP.

I mention this not because I can see any solution (except one that would cause an uprising in Auckland - that is, GMs purposefully dumping more info to Wellington’s smaller playerbase to make up for it), but because saying that Aucklanders have no advantage simply because they may have no mechanical (or GM-input - although this, I do believe we do also have) advantage is untrue, misleading at best.

#69

For a startoff ST blackouts are neither new nor bad. And I as an ST in the past avoided players in my games during such periods as well, so this is not new (nor a problem).

It’s true that saying this isn’t new doesn’t help, but claiming that it is hurts.

The scale of the game is certainly an issue. If there were still STs in Wellington then perhaps much of it could have been avoided entirely. But there were always going to be some challenges to running a game on this scale, especially one with a deliberate and intentional factional tone and such geographical spread between players between games. Still, we are where we are, however wrong those perceptions might be they have indeed become “particularly obnoxious”.

#70

If we’re looking for ideas for solution (and I think that’s why Jackie started the thread) then I’d suggest that out of game socializing would probably go a long way towards (re)building some bridges.

My own personal preference for role playing conflict has always been to do it with good friends because the friendship was always stronger than whatever emotions were happening in the larp. It’s much easier to throw down in game against someone you know and like because you know that later on, regardless of who wins, you’ll both be having a laugh about it over a cold beer.

#71

I would argue that the medium of discussion adds to the problem. Facebook, and indeed diatribe should the conversation be moved here, is a place where thoughts can be posted quickly and without review to a place where text reigns and humans are hidden behind a computer screen, represented at best by a picture and a title. Arguing with a wall of text is easy, and adding abuse to the argument is hardly a challenge, especially as many of the social cues not to do so are absent.

However, where are people going to go when they have a thought that must be answered now, or at least within the next little while? Emails to the GM’s take a long time to get a reply, and understandably so - they have lives outside of Crucible and there are a large number of players requesting information off them. So, for unanswered thoughts or thoughts that players do not wish to burden the GM’s with or wish to direct to players, social media is a likely - and evidently common - option.

Perhaps a combination of the above suggestions could feature a solution. Hold several (perhaps 3?) IC and OOC gatherings in Auckland and Wellington, and maybe one in Hamilton between each event, and allow people to mingle IC and take a raffle ticket should they wish to speak to the GM’s about OOC things. The GM’s then answer people’s questions as best they can one at a time and note any that they need to confer on later. 3 hour events with 5 minutes a person should allow every player one chance to talk to the GM’s, and if you want a second spot you have to wait until all the other players have had their turn or negotiate with someone to have their go. This would allow people to interact face to face on a regular basis, with set dates on when they can expect feedback from the GM’s, or at least a confirmation that the question is heard and will be considered. It may also help the GM’s condense the mass of requests hurled at them to a manageable amount to be dealt with all at once, and help them keep in touch with where each player is at.

#72

[quote=“Vespers”]
one that would cause an uprising in Auckland - that is, GMs purposefully dumping more info to Wellington’s smaller playerbase to make up for it[/quote]

I believe it is the perception that this is already happening which makes many of the complaints come across poorly.

#73

Do you have any ideas on how to solve this Jason?

#74

I’ve already made a number of suggestions, but two are particularly important.

I think that someone in Wellington needs to be an ST (possibly more than one and likely one in Hamilton as well).

I think that there needs to be a PC organised event in every city with a substantial player base (at the moment Hamilton and Wellington in addition to Auckland), though this requires players to step up (and push through whatever challenges exist) as well as ST support.

But I don’t see the ideas proposed in the OP as being useful or constructive for eliminating the issues which have caused the recent outbursts.

#75

Glad to see its just LARPers in this conversation, then. Wouldn’t want those bots to get in on this thread.

#76

I’ve been to three Crucible events Jason and I’ll be playing my first weekend game in Feb.

#77

[quote=“Admiral”]
And I think people who aren’t involved probably shouldn’t be getting involved Derek.[/quote]

Which would also include you and me by this train of thought Jason. We’re Crew, not players.

#78

This is getting off topic.

So, more GM’s around the place sounds like it could help the GM team keep on top of things. Expanding on that thought is one I have been thinking on for a while - why not treat each faction like a game-within-a-game, with its own GM team coordinating plot and game questions for them, perhaps with some player support. Might help structure the game by creating a deeper hierarchy of GM’s this way.

#79

Add to that - at Medusa we were talking with some Swedish guests. There the GM’s often have a character of their own that they play. They create the plot and set up the event, then join in on the day. Perhaps the faction GM’s I suggested could also have characters that they play.

#80

[Responding to the earlier statement about organisers taking blackouts]

Sorry for the lack of clarity, by ‘organisers’, I meant players in faction commanders. It kind of sucks that players are at the point where they’re quitting social media to avoid the game.
And yeah, the game has a definite factional tone. I’m not opposed to that in the slightest. There are just players that are complaining the workload is too great - that the game never seems to settle down, and that if you’re not switched on all the time, the game goes on without you. There are disadvantages to being in another city from where the weekend games take place, for similar reasons - the game moves on without you.
I… don’t really have answers for these problems. I’ve made my peace with the fact that I’ll struggle to feel truly involved in this game, but there are players in positions of organisation that wish that they could take a break, and that seems to be an option denied to them. Yeah, the LARP community is like this sometimes, but I’ve never seen it so short-tempered.

What I’m finding obnoxious is the fact that the game never seems to go away - there’s no option to switch it off temporarily unless you want to miss something big. Any time someone raises concern about that, the response gets heated, and then blows up. And it happens every time. I have no problems with people raising problems they have with the game, but rather than trying to solve these problems, the tendency seems to be to insist that the problems aren’t problems, or warrant a change in attitude on the part of the complainer, rather than a change in the game.