We're breaching people's privacy

Given the questions that arose online this week about consent in relation to LARP photos, and given that I’m home sick today, I thought I’d raise this topic here.

Our LARP community is breaching people’s privacy. It’s unintentional. But it’s still happening.

I have had a bit to do with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner through my work and I phoned them to clarify a few things just recently. Basically, even hobby groups and community organizations are treated as agencies under the NZ Privacy Act and need to respect people’s privacy and personal information.

How are we breaching people’s privacy?

With words
Whether we’re talking about a national group like NZ LARPs or localized city LARP groups, when we go online and post up lists of who has and hasn’t paid we’re breaching people’s privacy. When we post up lists about who has and hasn’t registered, who’s in which game, and who’s pulled out then we’re breaching people’s privacy. And when we go online and say “I’m not the person to speak to, try this person and give their contact details, we’re breaching privacy.

With pictures
If we take a photo of someone who’s had their photo taken at a LARP, even if they agreed to have their photo taken for that LARP, if we use that photo for any other purpose (like Armageddon advertising or general LARP posters that go up in a public space), we can be breaching the subject’s privacy.

I realize that a very high percentage of people who see their names posted online in a list (be it unpaid or otherwise) will be thankful for the friendly reminder and pay where they need to pay or sign up for what they need to sign up for. But some won’t be thankful. Some may believe that there’s a reputational risk to their name often showing up online on the ‘unpaid’ list or the ‘pulled out’ list or in anything else that may have negative connotations. Some might be especially mindful of their online presence or fear cyber stalking from external parties etc.

How to avoid breaching people’s privacy

I’m told by the Privacy Commissioner that the best way to avoid a breach is to inform people upfront. Posting people’s information online is not so much a matter of consent as it is about being informed, being transparent, and being upfront about how the information collected is going to be used. That’s section 3 of the Privacy Act.

If I’m starting a new game now that I know this

If I was going to start a new LARP tomorrow that no one was signed up for yet then all I’d need to do is be upfront to all the new group members. That means letting people know what information is going to be collected about them, why, and where it’s going to go (and I don’t just mean in a verbal conversation that one or both of us may forget). If my new LARP is called 123 Fake Street, then I’d put on my website( in a really visible place) that anyone who wants to sign up needs to know that the way my game will be dealing with registrations and payments will be to publicly post lists on facebook and diatribe of who has and hasn’t paid and who’s playing in which character group etc. I can even put on my registration form that I’m collecting personal info (like the player’s email address) for the purposes of being able to both communicate with them and also post up a list of players and their email addresses so that people in the same faction can get in touch etc.

Anyone who doesn’t agree to that way of working doesn’t have to. According to the office of the Privacy Commissioner they can choose not to join. But that’s a little exclusive for my likings and for LARP in general I suspect. So instead, I as the organizer can choose to take things on a case-by-case basis.

If I make everyone informed from the outset that I’ll be publicly posting up lists, and someone doesn’t want to have their name posted up, then they can let me know. If they’re not trolling or troublemaking for the sake of it, then I’m sure I’d want to include them in my game and still protect their privacy and agree not to post their name online.

As far as photos are concerned I’d want to make it clear upfront before photos are taken that these will be appearing online and in any other publicity material as necessary. Again, if people don’t agree to having their pictures taken… according to the privacy commissioner, they can either not participate or not have their pics taken.

If I were running 123 Fake Street I’d probably add a few more options there because, 1. I love my friends and 2. as a photo editor and designer, I know some people can love photos and be really photogenic…but that doens’t mean that the one photo of them between blinks with a terrible facial at 2am when they’re lying beside spilt ale is something they’d like to go up in the public domain where family or future employers have access to it. Or maybe I just don’t like that one photo of me angled to show four of my chins instead of three. I know I wouldn’t want that pic to be seen by anyone so I know how people feel and why they may want the right to veto images that they’re in going online or being used for advertising. I’d like to give pple that choice on a pic by pic basis. And don’t think I don’t know how much extra cat-herding that is. But if I don’t want my 4 chins going online then I’d want others to have that choice as well.

According to the Privacy Commisioner, I don’t have to give people that choice if I’ve been upfront about how the pics would be used. But if there’s a fee involved, or the subject or photographer in question is really concerned about the image then I should be respecting that and trying to problem-solve on a case by case basis rather than falling back on my disclaimer that says you agreed to have photos taken that weekend and this is one of them.

If I’m already running a game

So what if Im’ already running 122 Fake Street the LARP and I never posted upfront what channels I was going to use and what methods I’d employ to communicate with people and people are already signed up for my game? It’s too late for me to be open and transparent from the outset. But it’s not too late to look out for people’s privacy.

Photos

If I want to use people’s photos that have already been taken I’d need to ask for their permission, and for the photographer’s permission, and I’d need to say what the photos will be used for when I get that permission. If either the photographer or the subject don’t want their photos used then I could try and argue to the Privacy Commissioner that there’s insufficient “harm” done to the individual by pushing on with my plans. Though it can be a bit of a grey area at times, the best practice is generally that if you haven’t let pple know in advance, and they say no when you let them know, the answer should be no. Take another pic or use something else.

Names and personal info

If I haven’t been clear and upfront to my players/crew/organizers that I’ll be posting reminder lists of names online for anyone who hasn’t paid, then I shouldn’t be doing that. I can send individual messages to the people I’m trying to chase. And if anyone says they can’t remember if they’ve paid or not I can look them up and let them know individually. If people feel they are being named and shamed then there’s no way I should be putting up unpaid lists or unregistered lists or anything else if people haven’t already agreed to it. Of course, that doesn’t stop me being clear and upfront about the future sessions of my game that’s already running and putting in those registration forms and on the website that I’ll be needing this info for this purpose.

Clear as cake?

Thanks for taking the time to research and put that all together Hanz Hanz. It’s good to be out in front of a potential issue before it arises, rather than relying on the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

You’ve clearly outlined what we need to do to circumvent these potential issues. Would it be worthwhile coming up with a standard disclaimer as to how collected personal information is to be used that LARP organisers can include in their registration forms?

Thanks for raising this, and researching it. Its a little bit scary that we are already breaching peoples privacy, we should definitely take steps to remedy this.

Thanks for this. Too many people just don’t consider these issues, or forget that Diatribe (and Facebook, where I’m also seeing paid lists) are public forums, accessible by people outside the community. And that privacy applies against people inside the community as well.

As a GM, I’ve done some of these things - notably publicising cast-lists and not being clear about photos (I don’t do “paid” lists because I don’t usually do advance payments for my games). And I consider myself “privacy-aware”. Pretty clearly I need to improve my practice. And part of that is going to have to be switching from informal email signups to a form with a proper privacy act disclaimer.

Flight of the Hindenburg’s form attemptd to do some of this, telling players why we needed their email "and now their name), and including a privacy statement that

That was primarily aimed at reassuring people that e.g. their names and emails wouldn’t be shared with other groups or used to bug them about NZLARPS membership. But its clearly not enough to cover making cast-lists public, and its too late to amend it now. I think for future games I’ll be trying something like:

[quote]We are collecting this information for the purposes of casting you in the larp 124 FAKE STREET: THE FAKE STRIKES BACK. Your name may be made public on a cast-list. (OPTIONAL: your email address may be shared with some players if they need to contact you before the game). It will not be used for any other purpose.

Please note that a photographer may be present at the larp, and that photos may appear online or be used in future publicity material. If you do not want to be photographed, please discuss this with the photographer before the game.[/quote]

Any suggestions on how I could improve this?

In the long-term, I think we need a formal good practice guide for GMs on this topic, with standardised disclaimers so they don’t have to think, and some pointers about what they can and can’t do with collected information (the topic of sharing contact details between NZLARPS projects has recently come up as well). You’ve largely given us one. If you’d like to formalise it into a proper “how-to”, then let us know.

One of the things we might want to do is remove paid lists and cast-lists when they are no longer relevant. There are still lists up for campaigns that ended years ago, and there’s simply no need for this information to still be extant (though the relevant game may wish to retain it for its records).

I thought that when the paid lists were posted they’d list first name and initial. But looking back at the recent ones that isn’t the case.

Thanks for your comments, guys.

Derek,
That may have been the case, but even so, as far as I’ve been taught it can make little difference. When you’re redacting private information from a document that needs to be disclosed, it’s about getting rid of any info that would “identify” the person. So if you list me as “Hannah M” and there’s only one “Hannah M” in NZ LARPs then I can still argue that my privacy has been breached because I was never informed that I would be identified in a public list in that way. Alternatively, if you take away the “Hannah M” and you say “the brunette Wellington LARPER who shares a dwelling with NZ LARPer Anthony Doornebosch” or “ the person who ran The BDL One-Act-Play game at Hydra” or “the woman who plays Moss in 33AR”, if you’re giving out any specific information that can identify me then, as far as I’ve been taught, it doesn’t matter if that last name is left out or not. That’s still a privacy breach…unless it’s been made clear upfront that my name’s going to be posted in that way.

Would character names still be a breach?

I’m trying to think of a way for GMs to still get the same effect without increasing the already strained and stressed GM teams work loads ten fold.

I would assume so, just based on the ability to identify that person. I guess the best way to do things is to, like all those programs you “legally download,” is have a disclaimer you must accept which gives the GMs rights to post you on the list, etc.

My question is can we sign one piece of paper once, and give these rights to a group such as nz larps, that allows all larps run by nz larps to have access to the provided data.

This significantly overstates the problem. For GMs, improving privacy practice is a small, one-off cost: we grab some standard language telling players what we’ll do with their information, stick it on our signup forms, and we’re done.

Its a bigger issue for photographers, but they are already aware of it, and again the problem is largely one of improving communication. A single notice on a game website or signup form will again cover it.

Is it possible for NZLARPs to set up a one stop shop* for photographs of LARP’s, broken down into game and then events, which allows people to dump (good) photos there and then allow individuals to ask for photos to be taken down on a case by case basis? Obviously this would want to work hand in hand with a disclaimer. It would also create a lovely archive of old LARP photos, which are great for nostalgia and promotion. Other websites could then link to sections of this.

Also, thanks for posting this Hannah.

*That isn’t facebook.

This significantly overstates the problem. For GMs, improving privacy practice is a small, one-off cost: we grab some standard language telling players what we’ll do with their information, stick it on our signup forms, and we’re done.[/quote]

I was referencing paid lists. Many, many times I have seen issues of payments received but not registered be resolved because people have read the list, and then said “I have paid, is this list up to date?” or even things like “I put down bunking but am tenting here”.

The best way to resolve this, as far as I can tell, without lists, is to have the GMs liaise with every individual player and chase up payments.

:open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth: this is a very good point!

This significantly overstates the problem. For GMs, improving privacy practice is a small, one-off cost: we grab some standard language telling players what we’ll do with their information, stick it on our signup forms, and we’re done.[/quote]

I was referencing paid lists. Many, many times I have seen issues of payments received but not registered be resolved because people have read the list, and then said “I have paid, is this list up to date?” or even things like “I put down bunking but am tenting here”.

The best way to resolve this, as far as I can tell, without lists, is to have the GMs liaise with every individual player and chase up payments.[/quote]

From reading above, having a disclaimer before hand and then having the list as a temporary thing (i.e. it gets deleted after the game) should be enough to avoid privacy breach.

[quote=“Walter Hamer”]

Is it possible for NZLARPs to set up a one stop shop* for photographs of LARP’s, broken down into game and then events, which allows people to dump (good) photos there and then allow individuals to ask for photos to be taken down on a case by case basis? Obviously this would want to work hand in hand with a disclaimer. It would also create a lovely archive of old LARP photos, which are great for nostalgia and promotion. Other websites could then link to sections of this.

Also, thanks for posting this Hannah.

*That isn’t facebook.[/quote]

This was actually brought up in a discussion on facebook, I think its a very good idea.

[quote=“Lady Prema”][quote=“Walter Hamer”]

Is it possible for NZLARPs to set up a one stop shop* for photographs of LARP’s, broken down into game and then events, which allows people to dump (good) photos there and then allow individuals to ask for photos to be taken down on a case by case basis? Obviously this would want to work hand in hand with a disclaimer. It would also create a lovely archive of old LARP photos, which are great for nostalgia and promotion. Other websites could then link to sections of this.

Also, thanks for posting this Hannah.

*That isn’t facebook.[/quote]

This was actually brought up in a discussion on facebook, I think its a very good idea.[/quote]

If only we had a one stop shop* for talking about LARP… Well, clearly great minds think alike.

Good feedback, thanks guys.

Do we have a contracts or IP lawyer in the group?

I can’t provide legal advice regarding the specific wording of any disclaimers. From memory the Office of the Privacy Commissioner can’t provide legal advise either, at least not on their free-phone numbers in Wellington.

I just phoned a lawyer friend who can’t give me an official opinion about it but says a general statement sounds fine. In saying that, Community Law in Wellington can provide us with free-legal advise if anyone’s available during their open hours? I just phoned to sound them out and they said they should be able to help out with the specific wording. It’s not a service they can provide over the phone though so we’d need to pop in during their session hours. The public info on their website says they’re available:

Wellington Office (Willis St):

Monday to Thursday 5.30-7pm
Wednesday and Friday 12-2pm

Hutt Office (Queens Drive)

Monday 10am-12pm
Tuesday 5pm-7pm
Wednesday 12pm-2pm
Thursday 12pm-2pm

No bookings are necessary. I could get to the Wellington office, but not for the next couple of weeks. I imagine a similar service is offered for community groups in other cities also?

[quote=“Helikaon”]I was referencing paid lists. Many, many times I have seen issues of payments received but not registered be resolved because people have read the list, and then said “I have paid, is this list up to date?” or even things like “I put down bunking but am tenting here”.

The best way to resolve this, as far as I can tell, without lists, is to have the GMs liaise with every individual player and chase up payments.[/quote]
They should be doing that anyway. I certainly do. But all GMs need to do is put a notice on the sign-up form that player names and registration types may be posted in public, and they’re covered. You don’t need to change your practices, just your forms.

That’s opt-out; opt-in is better. Coincidentally, there’s currently a discussion (on facebook) of establishing an archive of pre-approved larp publicity shots, wher everyone involved - the photographer and the subjects - have given consent for them to be used for publicity purposes (e.g. in a powerpoint display at Armageddon). I think Norm and Mel are taking the lead on this.

That’s opt-out; opt-in is better. Coincidentally, there’s currently a discussion (on facebook) of establishing an archive of pre-approved larp publicity shots, wher everyone involved - the photographer and the subjects - have given consent for them to be used for publicity purposes (e.g. in a powerpoint display at Armageddon). I think Norm and Mel are taking the lead on this.[/quote]

Trouble is its hard to opt in until you’ve seen the photos, and its hard to see the photos unless they’re public. I can’t say I want photos of me up if there aren’t any, and I don’t want to say put photos of me up unless I can see them first to know that a) it is actually of me, and b) it is of me looking pretty. We could set it up with a two? week window where any un-authorised photos then get taken down, and any photos that have been opted out are also taken down.

Also, any citizens advice bureau is able to offer free legal advice.