40 minute presentation from ThomasBe here:
Watched it. Not a bad watch. Thomas reckoned about 300 larpers in Switzerland, pop 7.8 mil. So we’re not too far off. Except as Jackie told me the German larpers can’t believe our big game is 120 people in bloody Middle Earth!
300 - 400 people (he gives a different number in the original presentation on Swiss-French larp), in French-speaking Switzerland, which is about a quarter of the population. So its as if we had an 600 - 800-player game here.
Though I think from watching the Teonn / Chimera experience that our size is partly capped by venue capacity. We might be able to run bigger games, but it would mean a change in model: either camping (ick), or one-day events (the Swiss event in question was a one-day thing, wasn’t it?)
I think camping is the only way forward for us Idiot. We simply can’t rely on a single venue (read scout camp) to provide all we need. I think maybe if we pushed it we could use both Kitchens in Motu Moana and we could cater for a lot more but to be fair on the community it is going to mean bringing in caterers or having external caterers come to us. Or we look at providing more of our own food and rely on catering for maybe only dinner.
Ablution blocks also become a problem, it is one reason I am always awake early at Teonn, to miss a rush.
I have been talking to Jackie regarding Mythodea and these are some of our current limits (in my estimation).
What’s the arrangement at Mythodea? Do people BYO, or do people generally rely on the food-sellers?
Depending on venue, you could supplement with hired portaloos, but that doesn’t solve showers etc.
How does the Taupo Joust cope?
(And yes, I’m looking forward to Jackie’s Mythodea debrief)
You’ll have to ask Jackie about food but she did say it was good value. That’s economy of scale because Mythodea is some 12,000 people all up, crew, players, NPC’s.
But I heavily suspect it is a bit of both, they had a virtual supermarket on site I believe.
As for ablution blocks, you can indeed hire shower blocks and toilet blocks… or you can go a bit feral and have a freedom camper shower (wet wipes). I believe the Mythodea site had substantial OOC blocks for this.
For us, this COULD look like booking a section of an entire camp site, with shower blocks and cooking blocks… but I have no idea if this would really work for us.
There are more larpers in New Zealand than turn up to any one event - I’d say there are 300-400 larpers in New Zealand, they just don’t all turn up to any one event. Secondly, Teonns are regularly up to 140 people a weekend, and Chimera this year is at 170.
Thirdly, while physical limitations are certainly an issue, they can be overcome - there are bigger camps (but they cost more, so the games would price themselves out of the student market which is traditionally a big source of attendees) and logistical solutions can found. I think the biggest hurdle towards getting bigger games is finding people who have time and skill to organise big events. Jared, you know what a headache a small game can be, try imagining that on a much bigger scale. Organising this Chimera is almost killing me, it’s like having a second full time job. Volunteers are in short supply, and for anything on a much bigger scale, it’s going to take so much of someone’s time that they’ll need to start getting paid for it - which would again push costs up. Is Mythodea organised by volunteers? I would be very surprised if it was.
The community has grown hugely in the last few years - it’s really disheartening that people poo-poo the fantastic growth and achievements in our community, because some overseas guys think it ought to be bigger. We’re getting there. Every year we set new benchmarks in size, innovation, costuming, make up, effects. We need to learn to tie our shoes before we can build an airplane.
(And New Zealand isn’t Middle Earth. Just because the movies were filmed here, doesn’t make us all hobbits and elves. It’s a total misnomer that because some movie was filmed here, there ought to be a bigger ratio of larpers.)
Anna makes good points here. I feel bad I didn’t paint a very full picture initially.
I didn’t really intend to rain on our growth, I also didn’t intend to say we were doing poorly. I just percieve we have limitations. I just didn’t list them very well. Because WE do do somethings very well. Running games of almost any size is HARD.
Chimera is a huge task (I always appreciate the lengths Anna goes to for this) and I know even small events are quite difficult to organise.
I think Mythodea is a commercial enterprise, they certainly have volunteers but I doubt the event is run on a not for profit basis.
I don’t think anyone meant to pooh-pooh our achievements. I’m more thinking that the changes that running much bigger and flashier games is going to mean. And as you point out, simply having to camp might be the least of it. While I love the gift economy, when people are working fulltime on an event for an extended period of time, its unreasonable to expect them to do it just for egoboo (I’m already amazed - and very grateful - that our caterers spend all weekend feeding us just for koha. Thankyou, people!).
The various Mythodea photos have also got me thinking about sets. They’re great, but even the simplest things I’ve seen - the magic circle, or the graveyard - would be a massive increase in transport and storage (not to mention building the things). As for things like gateways (or pubs), you’re basically looking at the road crew for a small rock concert just to set the things up, and a permanent warehouse to store them in.
And back to the Swiss: what about that Shadowrun game, eh?
I’m not convinced that we have any particular need for bigger games. The debate is similar to what was going on in esports circles around the start of the year, and imo the conclusion is the same - it’s better for the scene to have more moderate-sized events than one or two really huge ones. The only real hurdle to get over in that regard is that when you take that step, a lot of people still feel compelled to try and attend everything, because they’re stuck in a mindset which says that if they don’t then they’re “missing out.”
In short: More games in more places with fewer people feeling the need to travel so far for them.
Something to correct:
There where 8000 people. 5500 players, 1500 NSC and 1000 crew and traders.
Yes there was a supermarket.
But someone of them make there own http://www.taurusiuvavi.at/Foto/Conquest_2012/Location_Ambiente/slides/_MG_5299.html
In the “city” it was possible to find something to eat. (wild boar sausage) http://www.taurusiuvavi.at/Foto/Conquest_2012/Stadt/slides/_MG_4794.html
This picture shows the OT zone http://www.taurusiuvavi.at/Public_downloads/_MG_4901.jpg
in the big tent in the background there are the showers placed.
[quote=“Jared”]You’ll have to ask Jackie about food but she did say it was good value. That’s economy of scale because Mythodea is some 12,000 people all up, crew, players, NPC’s.
But I heavily suspect it is a bit of both, they had a virtual supermarket on site I believe.
As for ablution blocks, you can indeed hire shower blocks and toilet blocks… or you can go a bit feral and have a freedom camper shower (wet wipes). I believe the Mythodea site had substantial OOC blocks for this.
For us, this COULD look like booking a section of an entire camp site, with shower blocks and cooking blocks… but I have no idea if this would really work for us.[/quote]