Via LJ, a pointer to a description of US Larp on Rule 7:
forums.rule7.co.uk/Topic131881-4-8.aspx#bm133856
Ick.
Hmmm, I’m definitely glad the situation in New Zealand isn’t like that. It sounds to me like probably the biggest problem of all is bitterness between playgroups, and how they seemingly desperately try to hold on to players and never let them even try another game. That and it sorta came across to me that perhaps for many of the participants boffer fighting ≡ LARP in the US, so that the whole roleplaying aspect of it doesn’t even particularly occur to them.
Also, it kinda sounded like some of these are run as businesses, rather than as non-profit societies like NZLARPS. Maybe that isn’t helping? I mean because they have incentives to simply deliver what they know people will pay for, and reduce competition, rather than encouraging people to go out and have fun and experiment.
I find that horrifying on so many levels.
As well as those already pointed out, the worst (to me, at least; I don’t expect everyone to agree) is the duration and stagnancy of the games. It sounds like they all find something that works, then never stop doing only that. If your game is running long enough that it’s worth considering an exp cap, then you’re doing something very, very wrong. A LARP isn’t just running around hitting things with foam swords; it’s a story, and all stories need definite arcs in place. If you don’t plan the entire story arc - beginning to end - right from the get go, you’re setting yourself up to fail eventually as your players inevitably get bored with the same old. Beyond your responsibility as a GM, you have a responsibility as a storyteller to tell a bloody story - and every story must have a plot progressing to an end.
This is one of the things we’re really doing right here (at least from what I’ve seen in my relatively brief time in the community). Games like St Wolfgang’s and Teonn were never intended to run forever. The GMs have definite plans for where they want their games to go, when they intend to reach there and how powerful they want the PCs to be by the end.
Of course, you’re free to disagree. Understand that I’m approaching this as a writer and storyteller myself - to me, story is everything. Always. Roleplaying is at its core an interactive storytelling medium, and dammit that means you use it to tell stories.
On another note: Am I the only one bothered by him calling it ‘LRP’? You can’t friggin’ pronounce that! Well, you can try, but it sounds idiotic.
Yes. One of the things that comes across strongly from reading US larp material is how they see play as exclusive and competition as a zero-sum game. I’ve seen discussions on rpg.net where they talk about timing their games deliberately to clash with other events, so as to prevent players participating in both. Its a completely different mindset from the cooperative approach we have here.
Battlegames / swordtag seem to be a big part of it, but its a different subgenre (and its great if you like that sort of thing).
And it means worse kit, both to reduce entry barriers for players, and because money goes on profit rather than the game.
And OTOH, the UK seems to have large, commercially run larps with high kit standards and good stories. So clearly its not just about a commercial approach.
They didn’t really write about theatreform at all. The US seems to have a fairly good theatreform scene, with several dedicated cons (InterCon, WyrdCon, Larpacalia) and larps featuring at normal gaming cons.
Most interesting part of that post:
"For gawd’s sake, don’t be afraid of a game that lets PC’s die. Make good kit standards matter, push them and don’t accept “just barely enough” as “good enough”, or it will become the norm. Keep your merchants alive and support them- and never, ever look at other games as threats. Those are the biggest mistakes that paralyze things on my side of the Atlantic. Don’t let them ever corrupt your games. "
It’s almost like I have heard somone say that… somwhere… if only I could put my finger on it…
Interestingly, this post topic shows exactly what has happened to larp in Hamilton (albeit with different scales). I react in horror because I still have to deal with fallout from a very similar mindset.
They didn’t really write about theatreform at all. The US seems to have a fairly good theatreform scene, with several dedicated cons (InterCon, WyrdCon, Larpacalia) and larps featuring at normal gaming cons.[/quote]
Yes, that writeup is very focused on live-combat larp. There are two other big streams of US larp.
One is the World of Darkness scene (Vampire, Werewolf), which seems reasonably active and has one or two big multi-site organisations. There are a fair number of complaints online about some US vampire games suffering from cliqueishness, especially the large ones.
The other is what they call “theatre-style” larp in the US, usually one-off events with pregen characters but also emcompassing some campaigns with player-made PCs. Theatre-style is pretty much defined by not using being physical combat (foam weapons, etc), using abstract resolution instead. The theatre-style scene seems pretty healthy, and doesn’t seem to suffer from the same ingrouping that the live combat and the vampire scenes do.
As he said there are also some bright spots in the live combat scene. As well as the independant larps he mentioned, there is an umbrella group called the LARP Alliance that seems to be bringing together some live combat larps to be more cooperative. They’ve been helping with some movies featuring larp like Role Models and Knights of Badassdom, providing gear and larpers to play extras and getting the writers to play in larps so they are informed. Apparently the writer of Role Models did a major rewrite of the script after attending a larp, casting it in a more favourable than had been planned (he talks about it in an interview somewhat). LARP Alliance has also been organising a general larp convention called WyrdCon on the west coast, which has both live combat and theatre-style larps. But yeah, it does sound like NERO and it’s clones still dominate the US live combat larp scene on the whole, and it’s interesting to hear how much bigger the groups with just fighting (like Amtgard) are than the roleplaying groups, I wasn’t aware of that.
Well, I stand corrected about the boffer fighting point 
I wonder how many of the people who attend one of the event types described in Ryan’s post above also attend another. I mean, I know that in Auckland a lot of the same people attend NZLARPS events and the monthly weekend games, although not everyone who goes to one goes to the other, for whatever reason. I’d be curious if there currently is much of a crossover of people, and whether that’s likely to increase or decrease.
[quote=“IdiotSavant”]And OTOH, the UK seems to have large, commercially run larps with high kit standards and good stories. So clearly its not just about a commercial approach.[/quote]Perhaps it isn’t the for-profit vs. not-for-profit thing then. Maybe its because of a lack of the effects of competition - as in, in the UK I imagine that plenty of people go to more than one of the for-profit events, so if the standards at one start to slip too much, people will notice they’re not getting as good as they could, so they’re not going to be willing to pay as high a price again or they may just stop going altogether, with the consequence that the LARPs have to make a good effort if they want to keep making money. Whereas in the US, because there’s that ‘us vs. them’ mindset, perhaps people only go to one for-profit LARP (or worse, only one LARP at all), so while there are competing events, people don’t end up making any comparisons, and so the events don’t feel the competition as much. Maybe - its just a guess. I don’t think there’s any particular reason that either a for-profit or not-for-profit game can’t be great.
[quote=“Jared”]Interestingly, this post topic shows exactly what has happened to larp in Hamilton (albeit with different scales)./quote]
Actually what happened to LRP in Hamilton is quite different. Because a second group wanted to start a new LRP in the same Genre as an existing campaign and because of the small player base in Hamilton, the established group closed down so as to let the new group have all the players available in Hamilton and to make sure that there was no competition between groups. The reason for the failure of the new group to attract players in Hamilton has little or nothing to do with the previous group.
[quote=“Krintar”]
On another note: Am I the only one bothered by him calling it ‘LRP’? You can’t friggin’ pronounce that! Well, you can try, but it sounds idiotic.[/quote][/quote]
It was called LRP (pronounced LuRP) until Masquerade the Gathering became popular. in fact it was a point of difference between ‘Live Action’ games where Paper/Sciccor/Rock was used and ‘Live Role Play’ games where you actually did the combat. LRP is the older and probably most historically more accurate description of Live Role Play.
Unfortunately, my experience with LRP in NZ is that it has now become very inbred and there is a lot of LRP bullying going on that drives most new players away. In many cases people won’t join because to that LRP bullying.
[quote=“Alista”]Unfortunately, my experience with LRP in NZ is that it has now become very inbred and there is a lot of LRP bullying going on that drives most new players away. In many cases people won’t join because to that LRP bullying.[/quote]If that was your experience then I’m sorry for it; as a new person to the NZ LRP scene (1 Teonn and counting…) I’d like to chime in and say I have had the exact opposite experience. The VAST majority of people I have met - in fact, I’m tempted to say 100% of the people I’ve met - have been nothing BUT friendly, inclusionary, open, and willing to help me out in whatever I need, often before I’m even aware that I need it 
That’s daft. If you’re going to differentiate, shouldn’t ‘Live Action’ be the one where the action is, y’know, live?
Looking for the “like” button right now.
I presume there’s a difference between LRP and LARP?
[quote=“Alista”]Unfortunately, my experience with LRP in NZ is that it has now become very inbred and there is a lot of LRP bullying going on that drives most new players away. In many cases people won’t join because to that LRP bullying.[/quote]I’m sorry you feel that way, Alista. Right now, to my perception at least, Auckland and Wellington are going through growth phases (which is awesome!), but I have less knowledge of the other areas, and the insidious thing about bullying is that it isn’t always very visible. I hope that if anyone is feeling picked on they feel able to say so, whether publically or in a private chat with the event organiser so that something can be done about it.
[quote=“Kamica”]I presume there’s a difference between LRP and LARP?[/quote]Practically speaking, in NZ, no. There are some overseas communities that use different acronyms to draw a distinction between live roleplaying with actual combat (LARP), and live roleplaying with no or abstracted combat (LRP). Over here, I don’t think people care that much about the spelling difference, but we might use theatre-style or live combat as descriptors.
But I haven’t noticed any bullying in the LARP community of New Zealand O.o So what was that all about?
Alista, I’m sure there are differences of approach, and differences in personality and game style and management style and structure that may cause the odd bit of ruffled feather. But regular, repeated bullying to the point where people are scared away from a hobby? If that’s happening with some regularly now it’s alarming. And somehow, I don’t find it likely. It doesn’t fit the culture of the larping communities everywhere else I’ve been in NZ.
A concern I have, from a purely observational/outsider’s view, is that some lUrpers may speak ill of lArping and lArpers, possibly unfairly, discouraging people from even attempting a game and being able to make up their own mind. And I -really- hope that’s not the case.
There is no bullying from this side of the larp fence if that is your insinuation Alista. At least nothing intentional. No other larps interfere with what you do. Why don’t you just come out with your grievances? Hell, maybe we can sort them out.
Didn’t Alista request and get approval for a larp (with a hefty budget) a while ago? That then never ran…