Rules

Community Larp discussion
#1

If we must have calls, can they at least attempt to be in character? They get really confusing if there’s a lot of them to remember, but on the whole, “I smite you down! I smite you down!” sounds less crap than “Double! Double! Double!”

I think even shouting “Pierce!” wouldn’t solve the problem of arrows. Some guy across the field yells “Pierce!” and you get hit with something. Maybe it was an arrow, maybe it was NPC Bob with the sword, maybe it was NPC Tim with the axe behind you, or maybe it was NPC Jane with the tentacle, who knows, it’s dark, they’re bellowing, you’re calling for your allies, someone might have just shouted Time Out, oh god oh god oh god send help.

Maybe we can have glow in the dark arrows, with a flashing LED or something (I’m not even sure I’m seriously suggesting this. I have no idea of what the safety implications of adding an LED to an arrow are)

#2

I agree Anna, I wasn’t suggesting “double” as a call, just that something is needed.

And I agree, a call for the arrow might not solve the issue but it would mean that the target could then put that thump on his back down to an arrow…

#3

How about this for 2H weapons: you have to grunt loudly when making the strike. This would represent the extra effort required to do double damage, and provide an IC way to let everyone know you are wielding a 2H weapon.

On arrows, perhaps the protocol could be that if you notice you’ve been hit by an arrow, then you say so to your comrades. If you say nothing, your friends could let you know so you could take your hits accurately.

#4

One problem in Wolfgang’s was people running around yelling “Holy Blow!”, “Unholy Blow!” “God’s Fury!”, "Loki’s Fury! and other variations on the same theme.

The advantage of “Double! Double!” is it conveys information.

By logical extension, someone yelling “Triple! Triple!” would immediately be understood as well.

I’m not sure there is a call for the special assassin’s contract that allows you to do three damage yet, but if it doesn’t have the number three in it, I’d suspect most people won’t have a clue they’re meant to take three points of damage.

I honestly don’t think that yelling “Mighty Blow!” (or a variation on it) breaks immersion more than yelling a number. But I do think yelling a number will be more likely to get people to take that amount of damage.

#5

[quote=“Jared”]More weapon issues:

(snip)[/quote]

These are all the kinds of fundamental things I might have made suggestions on, if the GMs were requesting suggestions. Also, various supernatural abilities that I think aren’t well suited to larp (like abilities that force truthful answers or break shields). But there doesn’t seem to be much point in commenting on such fundamentals of the rules, when it doesn’t sound like any major changes will be contemplated by the arrangers. My past experience is that unsolicited advice on fundamental rules is often unwelcome, especially when an event is pending and rules need to be made definite for it.

For my money, I prefer live combat rules where all strikes do 1 damage (so there is never any need for damage calls), any special ability and spell calls are minimal and infrequent, no abilities are required to use mundane equipment, and abilities are carefully screened to exclude stuff that is counter-immersive, complex, impractical, replicates things you can achieve without the ability, or works as a shortcut to thinking. That approach would make a lot of the “fixes” that people have suggested redundant, because you don’t need to apply fixes to something simple (e.g. if there aren’t any calls, you don’t have to worry about what verbals to use or whether targets will discern them). Having said all that, those would all be major changes and I’ve got no expectation they might happen.

I found Wolfgang’s a bit too complex and call-intensive, and I think these rules are going a step further on that route - while still being nothing like as complex as a lot of international larp rules.

But none of that is a suggestion, it’s just a comment on my preferences. I like the flavour the Teonn setting and rules have, and I reckon some of the abilities have a nice originality to them. I’d prefer some different fundamentals to the rules, but in the end GMs make those calls (and seldom change their minds about them except when they learn through personal experience) and players live with it. :slight_smile:

#6

[quote=“Derek”]I’m not sure there is a call for the special assassin’s contract that allows you to do three damage yet, but if it doesn’t have the number three in it, I’d suspect most people won’t have a clue they’re meant to take three points of damage.

I honestly don’t think that yelling “Mighty Blow!” (or a variation on it) breaks immersion more than yelling a number. But I do think yelling a number will be more likely to get people to take that amount of damage.[/quote]

At the moment, the call for the assassin contract spell is “Mighty Blow” against everyone but the target and “Mighty Blow, Poison, Venom!” vs the target. It is a bit of a mouthful, but I think that call can be sumerised as “Your Screwed!” (after all you have just taken 4 damage, become paralised for 30min and will take another 1 damage in 5 min if you live that long.) :slight_smile:

I personally agree with Derek that calls that are easy to understand are better than calls that are more in character. It is not in character to shout “poison”, so “double” and “triple” are also fine IMO.
If a two damage call is introduced then remembering the difference between “mighty blow” and eg “smite”, then converting that to a number to add to the damage you have take is harder that working out what a “double” and “triple” hit did.

#7

Re: Ryan.
Are my suggestions uncalled for? Possibly. Are they likely to change the fundamentals on my suggestions? No. Do I mean to insult or demean? Hell no. Do I think the game would be playable as is? Yes. Very much.

Posting on a forum is however pretty much an expectation, nay an invitation to have discussion on the forum topic… hence a forum. And after conversations with Muppet about the rules, they are expecting feedback.

But I don’t necesarily think they should or should not change things based on my feedback.

#8

I think it’s only natural for people to have questions. A lot of the stuff is clarifaction based - I think it’s better that people ask and be told no, than to do something and have to tell them they misinterpreted stuff. Always messier that way. People can read things in lots of different ways - believe me, I’ve got an English degree :wink: In general, people are quite happy to be told no, or not yet :slight_smile:

Thanks for all the work on the game, guys.

#9

Wasn’t criticising you mate, it’s all good.

#10

It’s always the catch though, striking that balance between overly complex and too simple, particularly in a fantasy setting where Strange Things Will Happen. I’m also in favour of simplicity where you can, but how else to you represent those incredibly strong blows, poisoned blades, weapons charged with lightning etc. It’s kind of the same with use of items and equipment. I’ll concede that anyone could pick up a sword from the ground and start swinging it, but true combat readiness takes years of practice - just like the arcanist must spend years learning to hone her talents at casting spells. But where do you draw the line? Should a line even be drawn? How much can you do without detracting from an RP experience?

In the end it all just comes down to balance, and what sort of “feel” you’re trying to create in the game. I’m sure Teonn will realise it’s own unique flavour, and I’m looking forward to reports from the first game.

#11

To be honnest I would rather have a crew member who is hitting me in the back with a 2handed weapon call “double” with each swing than either:

A: Make no call at all and then be called a cheat by the crew and end up in a debate either mid combat or at a later date with a gm

B: Have to put up with more, icy blow, mighty blow, epic blow, MIGHTY POISON VENOM BLOW!

It is easier for a new person (usually crew) who has never larped before - to understand Quad Paralise Poison. Than Mighty Blow,Venom, Poison.

Quad = 4 so you have just taken 4 points of damage (duh)
Paralise = You are paralised. One of two things will happen either you will die before what the effect does matters or you will act paralised long enough for somone to tell you ooc (like a GM)
Poison = Obviously you are poisoned - what do poisons do in the real world - slowly kill you - logic says therefore that no matter who you are you will have a vague idea what might be happening to you.

To be honnest - we are running around a scout camp pretending to be epic high fantasy characters while we ignore the parked cars and nearby traffic. If you can transfer that into the sights and sounds of a magical land in your head then you have got to be kidding yourself to think that somone yelling double is going to hinder your imagination. If however you cannot transform the sights of a scout hall in your head into a fantasy castle / inn and you can’t ignore the cars parked in the carpark or those that drive by then what does it matter if somone says double or mighty blow?

Lets just keep things simple and make things do exactly what they say on the tin. I for one like to buy a tin of peaches and open it to find peaches.

#12

I find calls of “two”, “double”, and “mighty blow” fairly equally disturbing to the atmosphere of a game (assuming the game is roleplay-intense, not just a bash). But the worst thing is constant calling of “two two two” or “double double double” happening all around me if it has to be called with every strike, it’s especially annoying. Counter-immersive, restrictive of roleplay (it’s hard to speak during that, or to be heard), and just generally lame sounding. I enjoyed the early Wolfgang’s games where hardly anyone had powers requiring calls, the more calls started to be heard in combat the lamer combat sounded to me.

I’d far prefer a setting that’s designed to use a system that doesn’t need such calls, in favour of genuinely IC calls (e.g. an IC chant that channels some sort of power). Especially if those IC calls happen more rarely, only a few times per combat.

As for all the other OOC distractions - I’d prefer to do without those too. But rules are something easy to fix, whereas summoning up a medieval village to play in is harder.

EDIT: of course, Nikki and Muppet will have heard these differing perspectives many times before and formed their own preferences, which is what I was meaning before about not expecting any fundamental changes.

#13

I totally agree with this. When I played in the last Wolfgang’s it detracted from the atmosphere when you had yell ‘Mighty Blow’ a million times while you were fighting a crew member with a metric tonne of HP.

The less calls the better, if it becomes common place for players to have special attack augmenting powers it will make combat far more confusing then it needs to be. What would be awesome would be making it so people can actually communicate during a fight. I’d love to just be able to focus on fighting and smack talking :smiley:

At the moment, the Assassin spell really shouldn’t come into play for wee while. It’s a second tier spell and really, just how much assassinating is really going to be called for? When it does inevitably come up, calling something appropriate out will make the target sit up and take notice. The effect is diluted if combat becomes a mess of different calls that people are trying to keep track of.

#14

Ah … the good ol’ classic Spider Man school of combat … run around your opponent in circles, yelling distracting quips and awful puns, until they collapse under the weight of the linguistic attack.

Perhaps a special crew-only rule, that strikes by players deal two damage, if accompanied by a suitably witty comment, clever insult, or awful pun?

[I jest, of course; But there’s no denying it could make combat hysterical, if no longer very historical - e.g. there’s no stun ability or call, so if you want to disable your enemy, you’re going to have to double them up with laughter. May the sharpest wit win!]

#15

Regarding the complaints about repeated calls of “mighty blow” or whatever other call is made - it is not necessary to call these out for EVERY strike. Once people realize that the large orc with the big ax is dishing out 3 points of damage a hit, they don’t need to be reminded at every strike the orc makes.

#16

Walter, I dont think the orc would make any more strikes as everyone will be running in the opposite direction.

#17

I totally agree with this. When I played in the last Wolfgang’s it detracted from the atmosphere when you had yell ‘Mighty Blow’ a million times while you were fighting a crew member with a metric tonne of HP.

The less calls the better, if it becomes common place for players to have special attack augmenting powers it will make combat far more confusing then it needs to be. What would be awesome would be making it so people can actually communicate during a fight. I’d love to just be able to focus on fighting and smack talking :smiley:

At the moment, the Assassin spell really shouldn’t come into play for wee while. It’s a second tier spell and really, just how much assassinating is really going to be called for? When it does inevitably come up, calling something appropriate out will make the target sit up and take notice. The effect is diluted if combat becomes a mess of different calls that people are trying to keep track of.[/quote]

Agreed and agreed. It’s a little disappointing to see both “double” and “lightning bolt” being used as not only are they counter-immersive, but I thought that lightning bolt was something of a larp-joke now! :wink:

I think that you do need to call out ‘double’ for every strike in mass-combat. If someone is being hit by multiple people, and some of those blows do double-damage as is represented by a call they’ll need to know that, won’t they?

#18

What, then, does one do for an immersive lightning call? I’m assuming tasers aren’t an option, my portable Tesla coil is still on the drawing board, and yelling “CRACKLE CRACKLE” doesn’t seem to have the same ring to it.

I suppose one could call “Zzzap!” ?

#19

[quote=“Ignifluous”]What, then, does one do for an immersive lightning call? I’m assuming tasers aren’t an option, my portable Tesla coil is still on the drawing board, and yelling “CRACKLE CRACKLE” doesn’t seem to have the same ring to it.

I suppose one could call “Zzzap!” ?[/quote]
I figure a series of bad electricity based jokes could also be used to shock people into submission…

#20

“Why how static your footwork is today, sir; How about I liven things up with a shocking display of magical power?”