Render Unto Caesar

Actual ranks. Princeps was a civil rank or title, like ‘princeps iuvenis’ (prince of youth), duc was specifically for the leader of an army. Imperator started off being a title granted to a really really successful general, then after Julius Caesar and his relatives took over (Caesar was a family name to start with) the title Imperator began to be used (which turned into Emperor in English) because Rex was a dirty word to the Romans (lots of stuff in their creation myths about how they got rid of the corrupt kings 500 years earlier.)

Before the Imperator title got used for rulers, the top dogs would be the Consuls, which was an elected position that got changed every year. (I think there were two at a time, and they switched days? Might be wrong on that point.) And if there was a military emergency, the Senate (also elected) could appoint a Dictator to run everything for no more than 6 months. (Another big figure in the histories was Cincinnatus who got appointed as Dictator, solved the problem, then humbly went back to farming.)

I feel embarressed, I COME from europe (Roman country =D (Yes, part of the Netherlands (the part where I lived) was occupied by the romans, we have beautiful ruins nearby =D)) and I know much less than you…

Also, our school has something saying “Alios Iuvare sibi fidere.” Note the blasphemous “U” in Iuvare >.>

For “creation myth” read “history”. They had kings. They got rid of them. They may or may not have then done the Hyena dance afterwards.

And seriously, Wikipedia might help: Constitution of the Roman Republic

Yes, it’s historical fact that they ditched the kings. But it turned into a reflexive flinch anytime anyone said ‘king’, the same way that some Americans (going by their press) get all worked up by the term ‘socialist’. (I think they understand different things by the word than I do.) Or waxing lyrical about the Founding Fathers, the same way the Romans were keen on the Brutus who topped Evil Tarquin. Romanticised history, shall we say?

[quote]I feel embarressed, I COME from europe [/quote]Eh. That’s what you get for studying Latin and the odd classics course - entirely obsessive about things that happened two thousand years ago. :blush:

Well, I probably should’ve shown some more interest in ACTUALLY learning something about them, rather than being fascinated about them… but I still can’t be bothered really >.>

I think I’ve got the inital idea nailed down and am now in the stage I need people to bounce it off. If you’d be interested in helping me develop some ideas for this, send me a PM. I’m looking to discuss this with experienced larpers who would want to crew for this game if it were run.

This is all very informal. This is still just a pet project of mine and I have no definite plans to run it.

The only roman thing I have, is Sandals, so I wouldn’t mind crewing when the event actually happens, as for LARP experience… one day game of a few hours >.> That’s it… So yea…

I have several nerf guns and bullets lying all around my flat (it’s how myself and my flatmates sort out arguments).

I’d be keen to play, what types of things would we be fighting?

Also, any idea on soldier classes? Like what would be available?

By the way, I bet you’ll be ignoring certain historic events, so that the roman feel does stay.
So about that, a few questions:

Do the romans keep their original religion or did Constantine actually convert the majority of the Roman Empire?
Does the Byzantine Empire get formed (Basically this is the medieval remnants of the Eastern Roman Empire. Funny how they kept the shield-cube (Phalanx?) formation =3)
Will the architecture have changed, or is it still predominantly columns, bright walls, and red roofs?
Has clothing changed?

I’m a little late to jump in, but yup, I am very keen :smiley:

Sounds like a fantastic idea and I can’t wait for more!

on gear and how i imagine it could have evolved

i would wager that the army would have moved away from shields as the romans being the clever military clogs they are would certainly have to evolve ahead of the curve however clear square riot shields with typical roman insignia / heraldry would be suitable for riot squads and keeping the sideways boss type grip for riot squads and such.

i assume the officers of the army would have traditional roman gladius or something similar

modern military helmets that hold onto the ancient rome stylizations (pronounced brows/cheek guards etc)

are tunics and bare legs still in fashion i wonder…

perhaps modern military equipment could be named after weapons/gear of old?

a lorica segmentata type IV anti personel tank perhaps?

a SPATHA-15 Assault rifle maybe?

a Pugio Z4 ground assault helicopter?

food for thought…

You know, apparently roman officers wore bronze gladii (or however plural of latin words is written). This was, though, because bronze (apparently) was better than standard Iron (Not steel, steel’s better than Bronze).

Interesting…I was aware that roman officers wore a dagger weapon known as a parazonium, its a traingular dagger tucked into the noted belt that worn over the cuirass. they also used mainz type Gladii since they were more a mark of wealth. (the romans were notorious for not chucking out out anything and many Miles got their first kit as the stuff dad had lurking in the shed :wink: ) but i must confess in all my years of roman re-enactment i have never heard of them using bronze daggers.

Bronze at the time of the consular armies did make up most of the existing armour of the day, with a few iron items in amongst the mix (espcially with the triarri) but in the prinicpate armies and onward these peices were rapidly replaced by iron and steel equipment.

Roman Empire became the Byzantine Empire. If you look at the armour/weaponry evolution involved during both empires time spans, take into account the very modern rush that has occurred in the past 200 years, through in some craetive imagination or simply rename the best and brightest gear available today? Should be right to go.

I know several military historians/nutters running loose in Akld larp. Beat them into semi-unconsciousness until they give up their secrets! points at David and Porl

runs

Well yes, if I can believe the Wikipedia page about Bronze, apparently bronze is stronger than Iron. However, Copper and Tin were never (except for one place) at the same place, while Iron was in all sorts of places, and didn’t have to be mixed with other materials. Therefore, Bronze was more expensive than Iron. Then steel came in, and Bronze got obliterated as weaponry =D.

The best source of tin was Cornwall in the now United Kingdom and had been visited for this metal all the way back to the traders of the Phoenecians, though other sources were known across the ancient world.

Bronze was used primarily because it was easier to manufacture at first, having lower melting points etc. as for it being more expensive i’m not so sure, there are numerous dig sites in italy and europe of mass dumpings of bronze montefortino helmets (thats the simple cap with a neck brow and knob crest used by the reformed roman army under Marius) all of them having been striped of any iron fittings, if it were indeed that expensive they would have been rapidly recycled back into service or resmelted for scrap rther than dumped in a pit neighbouring the roman camp.

to be honest having studied the subject (as Lokisson can atest) i doubt the suggestion that bronze was more expensive than iron or steel in the ancient world, it certainly is the case today but we possess vast and advanced steel milling that have made made the manufacture of the inferior bronze pointless for industry.

I so testify! :slight_smile:

David’s probably one of the best sources in the country as regards Roman culture and their military (yes David, I know there are others and I acknowledge them as well :slight_smile: ). Certainly the best source for them I’ve come across in role playing circles. :slight_smile:

Also, please remember, that by the mid bronze age the roman occupation of what is now the UK was sending back large quantities of bronze (as well as other metals) as well. The major reason for bronze use was, indeed, the ease of smelting but also it’s accessibility and knowledge of production. Early to mid Iron age shows us the roman’s had some truly remarkable pieces available to them, and they were quick to take advantage of this new technology … but iron, being harder to produce, was certainly more expensive than bronze. It’s also a reason for the major use of bronze right up till the end of the roman empire (hel, it was still used early Byzantine iirc), despite iron and steel’s superiority.

As all astronauts and modern military are aware: “Remember, your weapons, ammunition and armour are provided by the lowest bidder, please act accordingly”. :stuck_out_tongue:

Okay, as I said before, I probably had to do more research into the roman era. I can’t even find the article I found said info in.
(Annoying thing 'bout wikipedia, you just roam about, and can’t find what you found before again >.>)

Thought I’d post some of what I had in mind for this game. I appreciate the questions about the setting but that’s not important at this point. What I need to know is what people think of this concept as a game.

In terms of narrative I’m styling this game on war films and series with Band of Brothers and Jarhead being my two biggest influences. So, the first game is the training camp, the second game is dispatch and arrival where the army needs you and so on. There will be a leap forward in time between each game as obviously we don’t have time to role-play an entire military training regime. With this in mind, what I currently have planned for the plot would take place over about four games; five at a stretch.

I haven’t changed the mechanics from what I speculated on in my original post. They’d be subject to change based on concepts that may be introduced as the game progresses but I want to keep it as simple as possible and trust people to role-play appropriately. So a gunshot will take a person down and cause a serious wound.

The game itself would be more intense than most of our weekend events. I’m not aiming to put anyone through anything I wouldn’t do myself, but this could involve running in a formation or doing obstacle course runs climbing over a wall, running through tires, crawling under a net and all being done while someone yells at you. Any activity like this will be broken up between classroom lessons, ranges, standing in formation getting lectured, rest times and meal times so please don’t get the impression I’m just going to attempt to run people to death.

I want an emotionally intense game more than a physical game. As you’ve probably already thought, there aren’t typically gunfights in training camps so the first weekend game especially is not a combat-focused game. This is where I think it gets hard to sell.

The tone and plot of the game relies heavily on the military theme, and being in the military means doing what you’re told and getting a lot of grief for it. On one hand we have some good points such as kitchen duty being a perfectly IC thing to do and even a quick respite for those characters from putting up with the abuse drill officers throw at them. But would people be comfortable obeying a strict lights-out time and getting up on an order? Are people fine with the verbal abuse that an officer is likely to treat recruits with? How would people react to being selected for night duty?

I’ve gotten a lot of questions and expressions of interest based on the setting, but in terms of playing the game I’ve had a response from three people all of whom I know are the kind to see this kind of challenge and step up to it. What I’ve listed may sound minor but it’s these kind of things that commitment gets broken on. I need to know where a military theme will fit alongside with what people will sign up for. I know there are people out there that will happily fight several pitched battles until three at the morning and be up by breakfast yet will hesitate at the suggestion they might be running and climbing and getting told to get up for breakfast.

Well, I think that the entire premise sounds interesting enough (and I can imagine that the role-play would be incredible) that I’d be happy to put up with a “Boot Camp” game at the start. Even though I’m Captain Unfitness.