Newbie Question: Boffer LARP and RL skills

First things first - does the term “boffer” strike anyone else as slightly… not derogatory exactly but… childish? I guess is the word I’m looking for. I understand that it’s a nice, friendly word to convey a nice, friendly way of beating other people up, but if you’re explaining it to non-LARPers doesn’t it sound a bit silly? When you’re talking to “not one of us” do people use a different term?

Anyway, moving past the semantics for a while… I’ve never played in a boffer LARP, only in Rock-Paper-Scissors and most recently in “Stat + d10”. In a boffer LARP how do you reconcile IC vs OOC swordskills?

For example, I’m reasonably light on my feet, have done a little martial arts training, and know - in broad terms - how to wield a sword. When it comes to hitting someone over the head with a foam object I’m pretty sure I could handle it. What happens if the person (not character) I am fighting is more skilled, but their character isn’t? Or, especially, vice versa? Are you supposed to compare “sword skills” before the fight and adjust your fighting technique accordingly? Or is it all done on how good you are in RL?

Cheers,
Viperion

I’ve found it’s pretty much down to real life skills. It’s not ideal. In fact, it’s the one real disadvantage to boffer combat larps, since part of the point is to be able to play something you’re not, but there you go. I generally avoid playing a character that would challenge someone like Derek in combat, unless losing is part of the plan! :mrgreen:

There are a few “Skills” that can add to it, armour proficiencies and so on that can try to mimic being a better fighter.

But LARP combat does pretty much come down to how good you are, so it’s hard to play a baddass combat machine if you can’t actually fight. Sure if you are a good figheter you can play down how good your character is (and I have seen this done) but hard to go the other way.

By the same token though, in LARP it’s not going to work saying your character is this smooth talking charmer, when you don’t have the social abilities to back it up.

Rules and mechanics can only go so far :slight_smile:

I personally prefer calling any live combat game “live combat” or “larp-safe combat” over boffer combat. Boffer weapons conjure images of foam lagging around a piece of pvc pipe, which is what a boffer weapon is.

That being said, live combat larp is often referred to as boffer combat simply because that helps seperate it from “live steel combat” or “SCA live combat” because boffer combat has simply been around a long time.

I have often described the popular foam/latex weapons as simply larp-safe weapons. And I describe larp-safe combat as live fighting with moulded foam rubber swords. Without a little bit of explanation I guess this sounds a little childish and the reality is, larp-safe combat is not really that much different from what we did as kids, except that we had better imaginations back then (but know more weird shit now).

As to skill levels, larp safe combat is where OOC and IC merge. Skilled and trained fighters like Derek often have the upper hand in these situations. You can balance this out with HP to some extent. If you have more HP than your opponent, you’re simply more likely to survive. To some extent this can also be balanced out with roleplaying but despite best intentions we rarely fight below our actually ability. Furthermore Larp safe weapons are not like real ones, they’re light and often easily used.

Long weapons vs. short weapons - fighting with a short weapon vs. a long weapon will always favour the long weapon. Certainly some people are good enough that this is a minor handicap but its certainly useful for seperating “IC” skills (for instance a mage is more likely to have a short weapon in a larp because magic skills often mean there is little room for weapon skills) and this encourages more dramatic combat (in theory at least).

Shields - a shield is a great equaliser, favouring those who have one.

Weapon speed - there have been a few games that have used slow motion fighting (50-75% speed) to give less skilled players a chance. Teonn used a ploy of reducing blows to 1 second intervals to discourage machine gunning or drum rolling (larp safe weapons are light and can be used to tap-tap-tap which is unrealistic).

Weapon damage - most current systems have different levels of damage dealt. Normally this is 1 damage per hit, with rules for 2 handed weapons or exceptionally strong characters doing 2 or 3 damage per hit (with an associated call). Some overseas systems have damage levels from 1-8 damage per strike.
The reality is however most people struggle with counting 1 hit each time they’re hit.

None of these are perfect but unless you want lots of rules to dictate the skill at which you wield a weapon then thats what you put up with (and simpler is always better). If you want OOC weapon skills in a game, then you are best using a symbolic combat system and forgetting about actually using weapons.

And of course, the effect of OOC skills is one of the reason Matt so kindly organised several weapons practice sessions before Teonn …

When talking to “normal people”, I usually call it “Larp-safe combat”, and then clarify that, if required, by explaining that the weapons are generally made of foam.

While there are no mechanics that can make you a better fighter, it is possible to devise mechanics that provide an advantage that makes it less likely you will take damage.

For example, suppose there is an Advance Fighter skill that allowed you to ignore strikes to the hand, forearm, lower leg and foot. This would mean that you would be less likely to get hit as attackers would need to penetrate your defences more deeply to land a strike.

We use a similar ability in Skirmish for one of the characters in one of the pre-set games. It works quite well.

In the end, though, if you want to play a fighter, then it’s a good idea to practice and play combat oriented games. I am planning on holding a Skirmish this summer at North Head, just deciding on a date. If you want to fight, then Skirmish - being combat oriented - is a good choice.

Planning something similar for Wellington this summer, as a few people who want to come to Teonn have asked for some combat practice. We will probably organise a picnic and sort out something so people can practice different fighting styles and fighting against different odds.

Until the good RL fighters get it! Then we’re all in trubble. I like the idea a lot though.

I have also used a mechanic in that if you don’t have IC training for a weapon you can use it in your offhand only.
I have had this concept called gimicky before but in reality this rule really only penalises untrained fighters because those with training are simply better with whatever hand they use. The reason I liked it was characters who weren’t combat trained IC could pick up a weapon and use it, albiet not as well as someone who was traine IC.

The term “boffer” comes from the US. “Live combat” is the more common term in Europe and here.

With any larp mechanic, it can be based on character ability or player ability, or a mixture. You can have social larp mechanics where character abilities can be used to convince each other of things, instead of actually having to convince the other person. Same story with combat.

As people have pointed out, any attempt to “even the playing field” can also be used by people who are good at physical combat, so doesn’t work. The only way to even things out is to remove player skill from the equation.

People who like character abilities to dominate say it allows people to play anyone, which is true. They also say “larp is all about being able to play anyone”… which is just a statement of personal preferences, it’s not true for everyone.

People who like player abilities to dominate enjoy the challenge of using their own abilities to achieve things in the game. Actually convincing people of things, actually fighting, etc. They don’t necessarily want to be able to play anything - they’re happy to be restricted to things within their abilities. And they may enjoy trying to improve their real abilities in order to be able to play more skilled characters… whether in combat, problem-solving, or convincing people of things.

Different games will provide different experiences when it comes to this. Players can choose to play in the games that suit their tastes.

In spite of my above comments, I’ll take live-combat over abstract resolution any day. It’s far more exciting and interesting. I’ve tried White Wolf and I hated it. I like being out on the field with a weapon and a horde of greeblies. I’m generally happy to play healers or rogues or mages rather than straight out tanks because that suits my real life abilities.

Huzzah! I can finally fight right-handers!

But I guess I should get working on making more kit then. Roundshields and more maces and axes, here I come.

Interesting replies, thanks for those! Since posting I’ve had a look at the Teonn (is that a typical-ish ruleset?) and I notice there is no Combat skill as such, but there are abilities you can purchase that increase your hit points, or allow you to use certain types of weapons, and so on. Armour seems some good in a system where you can get hit twice and fall over :slight_smile:

Food for thought :slight_smile: Thanks all!

Viperion

I like both. But yeah, live combat adds to the excitement for me too, makes me feel more in the moment and charged up. It’s not just the fighting itself, it’s knowing that it could kick off at any moment. It makes the action feel more real for me.

Funny thing at A Town Called Refuge, Hansi (playing an American Indian) grabbed my gun out of my holster and threatened me with it. There had been a lot of fighting before that, but the physicality of that moment made my heart race - because I could have stopped him if I’d been more physically on guard, so it felt real. What he did wasn’t really in the style of the rules (strictly speaking he probably should have meleed me with RPS or something), but it sure did make an exciting moment.

Totally agree Ryan. I actually like there to be more physical contact in games when I trust the players and crew (although totally understand why there isn’t in games). I like someone being able to hug if that’s what the characters would do. Or grab me and pull me away or push me. Or if appropriate (and a lot of trust needed here) to be slapped when my character has done something to deserve it.

It all adds to it, for me anyway.

Shields are the trump card. Don’t underestimate how valuable they are.

I hear ya Kara. Nothing feels quite as good as physically defeating your foe.

It does mean you rely on your real life ability but to be fair, thats why its called larp. It has its restrictions. But then again so do the alternatives.

Shields are the trump card. Don’t underestimate how valuable they are.[/quote]

So so true.

A lot of the greeblies have them now too tho, Derek. And some of them are the size of tables!

Derek, maybe you should make a larp-safe dinghy that one or our erstwhile and mighty earth elementals can use to shield us all :slight_smile:

From my - admittedly limited - experiences, shields make you a lot harder to kill. Thus I highly recommend if you’re new to “live combat”, that you create yourself a classic sword/axe/mace-and-shield fighter. I suggest that you do not be an idiot like myself, and insist on trying to be a ninja-with-naught-but-two-knives fighter. That said of course, there can be a lot of fun (and, erm, accelerated learning) to be had by simply throwing oneself into the deep end of combat. It really comes down to one’s personal likes and dislikes, so grab a weapon, jump in, have fun, and experiment. Stick around with the other armed dudes, ask them (IC) to train you, don’t be afraid to be incapacitated, and enjoy getting a free lie down until the fight finishes up and the healers find you by your moans …