"LARP safe"?

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#41

Ok, I want to put my hand up as the person who fired the arrows in question. Like the others have said it was completely accidental and both times I stopped, apologised and waited to see if you were okay before continuing on. Whenever I aimed at someone to shoot them I did my best to aim for the abdomen or lower legs.

As anyone who knows me will attest I hate hurting people- I’m an ambulance officer, I’m not in the habit of breaking people in order to fix them and I like to be proactive about safety- I raised a concern about the chain gates with the GMs before the game having run into them in the dark more than once( and hence why Vanya now has a specially made first aid kit). If I hurt someone accidentally I am mortified- I accidentally hit Patrick on the neck with a pole-arm once and spent most of the rest of the day apologising to him. The only reason why I brought the bow and arrows along was because I was checked out on LARP archery by Adam, who also checked my bow for pound-draw, and as part of that training I was shot with those arrows from several different ranges- from a good 10m away to about 4ft. The only reason why I bought the IDV arrows was because they were recommended to me as LARP safe and I didn’t want to dare building my own as an inexperienced weapon-maker.

Because safety is a legitimate concern for everyone I’m very surprised that you didn’t bring up your concerns with me or the GMs at the time or later on Sunday. I would have been happy to listen and discuss it with you. I personally feel very attacked by the wording of your post and I don’t feel it’s appropriate to express legitimate concerns in such a fashion on a public forum when it could very easily cause offence and hurt that wasn’t intended in the message. We’re all in this to have fun, not scrap it out between us.

#42

Her complaint did set all of this safety-testing of archery in motion though…
And yea, it was really just really bad luck, to get hit in the neck twice… Also, did you really say she shouldn’t shoot you again? (I didn’t hear =S).

Let’s just hope it doesn’t happen again, especially now with the tests which are prepared, which hopefully Sets up heroic story tell voice Will usher a new age of LARP Safety! Cue awesome trumpet music

#43

[quote=“Xcerus”]The speed of the arrow will not change based upon the draw length providing the poundage is the same. So if I have a 36" 30lb bow and a 28" 30lb bow the arrows will still have the same power behind them.[/quote]Yeah that’s the idea; I definitely do not want a bow which is more powerful, but I do want a bow I can draw further (but see below)

[quote]Just so you know - 36" is big… Thats probably drawing to your ear which is unusual in a non-compound bow.[/quote]Ah, this I did not know - for a non-compound (which is to say, properly medieval looking) bow, was it not common to draw to the ear?

(Apologies if this is off topic for this thread - should we start another one?)

#44

Actually, from my lacking knowledge of medieval archery/bows, the English longbows weren’t really compound bows, they were made out of one sort of wood, this type of wood, however, had the properties of a compound bow. Other than that, compound bows were pretty common I believe, the ancient Egyptians apparently had them, and ofcourse the famous mongols.
Note however, I don’t know too much about bows, so I might be wrong.

#45

[quote=“Kamica”]Actually, from my lacking knowledge of medieval archery/bows, the English longbows weren’t really compound bows, they were made out of one sort of wood, this type of wood, however, had the properties of a compound bow. Other than that, compound bows were pretty common I believe, the ancient Egyptians apparently had them, and ofcourse the famous mongols.
Note however, I don’t know too much about bows, so I might be wrong.[/quote]

Due to changes in modern archery terms (at least at my old club in the uk) anything made from traditional matererials (wood / leather / what we historians consider to be true compound bows) are called traditional bows.
Modern counterleaver bows were refered to as compound bows. I didn’t argue as back then I was only young and trusted people :slight_smile: I think it is just somthing that has stuck.

You are however quite correct - true compound bows have been used for thousands of years - some of which do draw back to the ear. But most to the nose / chest / chin.

Counterlweight bows (modern rubbish) used for hunting + olympic archery / action movies for assasins / snipers - usually do pull back to the ear however they often have a release clip that means the string is a little further forward than the hand so the string ends up on your cheek (ish).

Good points tho!

#46

Maybe with all these different versions, construction materials and kinds of bow there should be a standardised list of different brands and specific bows that are recommended for LARP use.

#47

Think of it like a car - you can have any chassis you want but the engine determines how powerful it is. Providing the bow is below 30lbs of power its easy.

I think the most important thing for arming crew is safty training and only allowing those who know what they are doing to use any bows NZLARPS decides to buy for crew (Assuming they do so - at the moment there are none and I have heard no expression of intrest - please correct me if this is wrong :slight_smile: )

As far as players go obviously we can only put out reccomendations and offer help for people to improve their skill level. Archery training days once a month (not pure safty but practice) for example will really help improve you skill and safty as you get used to your bow.

I think a key thing here is that make sure you only use your bow and don’t just grab one cold that you have not at least practiced with - but thats somthing I want to cover at the safty project :slight_smile:

#48

Just to put in a few cents worth from my experience in being the target and being the used of a few LRP Bows :slight_smile:

Arrows to the throat always hurt… but they do regularly happen as do nut shots, and face shots… Without a lot of practice people are never very good shots with LRP arrows :slight_smile:

In the UK I played a game that had possibly one of the highest safety restrictions known to man… as the head ST/GM would easily get himself killed if hit in the head to hard or took any sort of bleeding injury…

Some of the rules they had in place… crew using bows had to be experienced, and calm players with common sense… this did mean a lot of people that crew were not allowed to use them (they just had to deal with it :stuck_out_tongue:) Players that used bows used their own kit (as lack of experience with a bow and a given arrow set leads to the inaccuracy) or had to use kit that was familiar to them (had been used many time before either with practice or in other lrps). Finally Archery once it started to get dark was an absolute no no.

Part of the scariest thing about getting shot isn’t that it hurts any more than a sword blow, but you won’t see it coming most of the time so there is larger shock value when they hit.

A shot from less that 10feet (3 meters) was always at the legs or not at all and a call like “point blank” was often used instead of letting fly.

The fact is if GMs are going to allow archery then there will be hits to the face and neck. Arrows are always aimed higher than they should be because the heavy arrows and low power that makes them safe also means they don’t fly very far at all in a straight line.

As for arrow type the reason the round arrows were not accepted by a good few of the LRP in the UK was not just the eye socket issue… but that they bounce back too much off people, and especially shields… and whilst the round end is fine getting a rebounded flight into you is not, the Flat heads just drop after hitting. Over all the round heads are nicer to shoot but worse for the target :slight_smile: they do ‘hurt’ ever so slightly more as well :stuck_out_tongue: though either is no worse than a solid hit from a sword.

One way to control archery from becoming too major a thing is to have in game mechanics about its use (skill requirements, maximum rates of fire) I know the archers out there won’t like the fact that it gets picked on, but the fact is it is one of the most dangerous and injury prone type of weaponry in LRPing, the other even meaner option is to restrict drawn bows and only allow crossbows that have a set poundage and more consistent flight path.

I personally don’t mind getting hit by the arrows having been shot in the throat a few time and the nuts before I came to NZ and am still alive :slight_smile: But with the inevitable influx after hunger games I think it needs to be looked at and decisions made on a game by game bases by the GMs.

#49

TL;DR, except first page.

being shot in the back was fine, you were ages away from me.

being shot in the neck by the same person twice, within about 2 minutes of each shot, at a range of 2m with extreme force was sucks as…

this was Saturday night, Teonn raids,

i had a little hissy and went back to the crew room sulking…then went ninja as styles erryone for REVENGE =D =p

tbh just glad it wasn’t an arrow to the knee

#50

I hear arrows to the knee can end an adventurers career, you can be left to simple guard work… that would suck.

As for getting shot anywhere from 2 meters with a full draw that is plain unsafe. But probably the bow being used by some one inexperienced and adrenaline’d up. Hence the policing who can and can’t use bows is important :slight_smile: chances are once the ‘guidlines for archery’ are part of the kick off in every LRP this is unlikely to happen again. Though you will still get shot in uncomfortable places… just not that hard :stuck_out_tongue:

#51

Like others have said, Getting bruises is just something that is not preventable at Larp Events, myふぃrstcレウィンgI came back with massive bruises all over my legs. and one on my arm。During the night it is too hard to tell combat wise and you’re likely to get hurt compared to the daytime.

#52

I am almost certain that the first shot was fired at roughly 3 or more meters, and the second shot was definitely shot from further than that, just so you know.

#53

say that again and I’ll give you an arrow the the knee!

regardless, it was really hard for even as much as a 5m rage…there is ‘immersion’ where, sure, you might get excited/adrenaline, and then there is ‘LOL, IMA KILL ALL THE NPCs WIT MAH LAZER’ which is overboard.

#54

Zanni, unfortunate injury aside, this thread has generated some positive discussion around bow safety.
I’m pretty keen to see bow use increase as its adds another dimension to larp combat.
I acknowledge that it is not without risk and voicing your concern WILL lead to better bow safety which is really good for everyone.

#55

It’s also generated some discussion at the auckland commitee meeting, and in combination with some of the teonn organisers (whom convieniantly were either on the council or living in the house where the meeting was) we are looking at putting some checks in place for weapon safety/quality… even “spell packet” standards got a bit of discussion.

#56

I would like to volunteer an old pair of prescription glasses for science as I have an alternative concern as a glasses wearer, namely the possibility that a round headed arrow could shatter the glass with a head-on hit. I’d like to test it with glasses fixed into place at short range with one of the more powerful bows (Cheryl’s was the most powerful one there, followed by Linda’s I think). I would need some method of clamping the glasses into place, a bow/arrows & someone’s garage or backyard.

If the arrows bounce off fixed thin glass at point-blank range, I’m happy to be shot at by them.

#57

Can we hit the glasses hard with a latex sword too?

#58

It would likely depend on the lens material. For example, I always get my glasses with polycarb lenses - essentially shatter-proof, and even if they do shatter, they do so in a moderately eye-friendly manner. But other kinds of lens material aren’t as strong.

#59

Only issue is clamping them in place won’t really simulate a headshot because while worn they would get pushed back or bent by a strike. I would expect the frames might break in such a test.

#60

I know people that have been shot in the glasses and other than losing them or the extra pain and a few sratches from the frames, the wearer was ok, and the glasses themselves where ok… But it does sting a bit because the frames of most glasses are not LRP Safe :stuck_out_tongue: … but then so does catching a blow to the face.