Sounds good to me. I’m happy to lead this, even if I am not the most experienced archer, I have been through the theory of safe larp archery (and put it into practice at Teonn).
Thank you to everyone for extending their experience and concerns about larp archery.
There is currently a project being organised that I feel I perhaps should have done a while ago but did not feel it would have the support of the community. From what I can see here from both the concerns and the support for larp safe archery however the time has come for me to do what I have been talking about.
I will be initiating a project that will run specific larp archery training as well as verify the poundage of bows in a recordable way for the community. I feel that with continued communication and education that both GM’s, players and crew alike will learn understand what is required of an archer.
Please watch this space - the akl GM is next week.
I appologise to the community for not organising this sooner - it was discussed over a year ago and I am ashamed to say that I did not follow up on it and let it slide by as we all do with one project or another.
I had an idea for an event called “The Yeoman’s call”
Basically a larp archery bootcamp in the style of your Defense of… games Adam.
[quote=“Jared”]I had an idea for an event called “The Yeoman’s call”
Basically a larp archery bootcamp in the style of your Defense of… games Adam.[/quote]
The project I will be organising will have no role play content - I feel the issue of safty overrides the need to have fun - safty is way too important to allow immersion to overide the project I am planning.
However - I think a side line game run to help train people in character is a good one and is the subject of the next defence of … game
Cool, any chance you could issue authorisation cards or something?
I was planning on somthing similar to this - thank you for suggesting it.
Can I get some feedback on concensus for things like authoisation cards? Perhaps with a small picture of the bow that was tested and a description of it including its power at 28" This is a fairly standard draw length for arrows - while this does vary it would be nice to have a set standard so people know what to look for when buying a bow. We just need an accepted standard more than anything. I am happy to take suggestions / feed back on this.
Training with close-range shooting is probably the main thing. It’s mostly about how you use the bow. But we could also consider draw weight and arrow type.
At the moment we’re inheriting overseas standards. Possibly, the 30lb maximum draw that’s appropriate for UK larps with large field battles and flat-headed arrows may be less appropriate for our smaller games where most combat is at quite close range with round-headed arrows. The bows I’m looking at getting from IDV are 26lb at 28", which is already under the standard we’re inheriting from the UK. IDV also do an 18lb @ 28" bow that looks the same. Possibly, bows with a very low poundage like 18lb may be even better suited to the round-headed IDV arrows which tend to fly faster, due to their aerodynamics, and therefore hit harder at the same draw (compared to flat-headed arrows), especially in games where most combat is close range. It may make them more “fool-proof”, in that no matter how long you draw the bow at close range the speed of the arrow is limited by the power of the bow.
Then there’s the arrow type. I’ve been a proponent of the round-headed IDV arrows, but we may come to the conclusion that the combination of 28lb bows and round-headed arrows leaves too much room for error (where error means pulling too much weight for the type of arrow at close range). IDV also do a flat-headed variety, that they call “low speed” arrows, like the typical UK arrow. According to IDV these have drawbacks - they fly slower, so they drop faster, they can become waterlogged wet conditions which can be dangerous, and they’re more prone to wear and tear. But they would certainly hit softer at the same draw, if only because they fly slower. I’m not pushing for a change, just pointing out that there are equipment options.
Making sure we know the draw weight of the bows in use would also be good. Seems like you can buy a bow scale in NZ around $70. That’s a similar price to what I could get one in from IDV for, so it might be easier just to buy locally. The society may want one.
I just wanted to correct this slightly - more for clarity than anything
There are a few large larps in the UK that have large battle fields that a full draw and elevated angle are required to engage - however most of the larps are small ish (10 to 50 players) and take place in heavily wooded area’s where the fighting takes place in fairly close quaters.
Larps of this size are what I would consider to be close to what we run with Teonn slipping into the medium size category (yay!).
From my experience and from talking with friends who have attended other events 30lb with snubnose arrows is fine.
However - a bit of learning about not using a full draw at different ranges and learning how to use your bow is definatly a good idea.
I personally have never seen either arrow type that is properly maintained and checked cause any one any injury. [not saying it doesn’t happen - just saying I have never seen it].
PLEASE NOTE - [color=#FF0000]THE FOLLOWING[/color] IS AN OPINION SHARED BY MANY (but not all) IN THE UK AND DOES NOT REPRESENT MY VIEWS.
[color=#FF0000]the IDV ‘ball’ or round headed arrows are not considered safe by many uk larps because some people feel the risk of eye damage with them is greater than the flat headed arrows that are supposed to be designed to be wider than the average eye socket.
]) rather than )) (crude I know but I hope this makes sence.)[/color]
-What type of arrows are permitted comes down to the GM’s of a game. As do other rules like night fight archery and minimum engagement. No matter what we do we cannot control a game masters decision. What we can do however is help people who want to learn how to use larp bow and arrows in a controlled learning environment that teaches people how to shoot at a moving unpredictable target that you don’t actually want to hurt.
That - I hope - is where I and anyone who wishes to help me come in
Adam, while I think you’re right that the decision is up to the GMs, I anticipate that most of them would be happy to accept a de facto standard.
If that standard turns out to be a 30# @ 28" maximum power bow, with IDV arrows and archers have to attend a two hour training session to cover techniques explaining and testing archers on techniques like ‘plucking’ and ‘aiming at feet close up’, then I think they’ll just go for it.
GMs have a million things to do for a game: booking venues, timetables, food, money etc. I think most of them will find having some kind of accepted standard fall into their lap more attractive than creating their own.
Maybe a “certificate of attendance” would be more appropriate? That’s probably formal enough really.
I think the concept and idea is great. One of the nice things about our games is we allow people to use various weapons and have different character concepts.
I think the only thing I would want to see is the set of standards and training made available for someone to train and certify in Wellington (and there are a couple of people I can think of who are suitable for this). Because there is now a lot of cross over between cities. And if you are saying a player needs that Certificate to be able to use a bow at a game (purely GM dependent), then Wellington players need a way to get that without having to fly to Auckland for an extra training session.
What I mean about inheriting standards is that I wonder whether we really need all the power of a 30lb draw. If that much draw weight doesn’t serve a purpose in our games, why allow such a high maximum?
I suspect 30lbs of draw weight would send a round-headed arrow over 50 meters, with only a minor arcing trajectory. That kind of range seems uneccessary - at that range, few larp archers could target a person, let alone try to avoid head shots.
On the other hand, the 30lb draw might be useful with flat-headed arrows, to allow range and accuracy when targetting people at more like 20 to 30 meter distance, which seems more likely as the upper desirable range in our games.
Therefore it may be worth considering matching the the draw weight to the arrow type. More draw weight for the flat heads, less for the round heads. We may find that 26lb is plenty for the round-headed arrows, if we could put that to the test somehow.
This is definatly somthing I will look into - perhaps if you would be kind enough to supply nz larps with a signle round-headed arrow for testing and we will do the same with a flat head?
Oh - I forgot to add:
Elevated firing of arrows should be (in my opinion) restricted at larps. Somthing I want to cover during the safty training. I would say that 50M could definatly be achieved with a volly style shot with either arrow type - but that is definatly not a safe way of shooting as it will come down on heads. Headshots are afterall somthing we want to avoid.
I’d be happy to supply a round-headed arrow for testing.
I’ll also look at getting in a few flat-headed IDV arrows to try out, and some of their bows at 26lb and 18lb at 30" draw.
We may even find that the 18lb bows are powerful enough, and could be suitable if the crew want some bows too as they’d probably need less training with to be larp safe.
I’m happy to be a crash test dummy. You may also want someone less physical, because I’m happy to be hit with sticks.
I would not mind to volunteer, but I can’t really get anywhere outside of walking distance from Auckland Centre, and am not available in the weekends… or before 6 PM, so I might not be the most suited XD. But it’s there none the less.
Also, when the tests are being done, I do recommend having someone with first-aid knowledge nearby (You are checking the safety of something after all, and in those cases, stuff can go wrong =3)
Is it possible to get bows which have the same draw weight at a greater draw length? The bows at Teonn all felt like (to me) they were only able to be half-drawn before reaching their limit.
For example say the bows here are 28# at 26" or something like that. Is it possible to get a 28# bow with 30" or 36" draw?
[quote=“Viperion”]Is it possible to get bows which have the same draw weight at a greater draw length? The bows at Teonn all felt like (to me) they were only able to be half-drawn before reaching their limit.
For example say the bows here are 28# at 26" or something like that. Is it possible to get a 28# bow with 30" or 36" draw?[/quote]
The speed of the arrow will not change based upon the draw length providing the poundage is the same. So if I have a 36" 30lb bow and a 28" 30lb bow the arrows will still have the same power behind them.
The only difference this will make is allowing you to short draw - where you do not draw to full length to fire. This is a good idea if you are very new to archery - however some people do not have the upper body strength to pull past about 26".
You could also use arrow length on higher poundage to restrict power - for example: If you have a 30" draw 30lb bow but the arrow length is only 28" then you will be firing under the 30lb potential of the bow.
So you could cut arrows to be shorter than the maximum draw of a bow to reduce the maximum power of the bow. If my arrows are only 25" long - you cannot rest them on the bow to fire and they just fall off if you try and draw them beyond that 25".
These are all things I want to look at
Just so you know - 36" is big… Thats probably drawing to your ear which is unusual in a non-compound bow.