great - now if only there was a larp that would let us use them…
and lol i just saw the price tag - what ever !
$20NZD is the most I would ever pay for a larp arrow.
o.O man buy a nerf bow for that much, seriously
Derek if you’re up for an online chat at some point I’d like to get your full take on this sort of thing. You too Adam, as it sounds like you may have used/been in larps that used them before?
Sure man. Remind me when you next see me
[quote=“TequilaDave”]o.O man buy a nerf bow for that much, seriously
Derek if you’re up for an online chat at some point I’d like to get your full take on this sort of thing. You too Adam, as it sounds like you may have used/been in larps that used them before?[/quote]
I don’t think we should be using arrows in larp without full face protection.
I also think that they’re typically so underpowered that even free, they’re not worth having. When was the last time an archer actually did something useful at a game?
[quote=“Derek”]
I don’t think we should be using arrows in larp without full face protection.
I also think that they’re typically so underpowered that even free, they’re not worth having. When was the last time an archer actually did something useful at a game?[/quote]
Um… lolwut?
Larp arrows are no more dangerous than most of the larp weapons you guys use over here - alot of which would be outlawed and you would prob be asked to leave for arriving at a game with them…
I certainly would not be prepared to let somone attend with shoddy arrows - but I would hapily let people use correctly made arrows at my events - I would ask to be able to pick one at random to take appart for my own comfort and to be able to ensure the players that they had been safty tested.
I would also expect people to stop using them if the arrows appear damaged or when you flex them gently (CF) they make a cracking noise. - and this can and is easily done between combats in the uk.
As for effectiveness - there are no skills in NZ rules at the moment for arrows - in the uk arrows ignore armor in all larp systems and alot of systems give archers extra abilities - including but not limited to - freeze, fire, root effects - fear effects and multiple damage such as double and tripple.
Archery when done right is fecking lethal - spell casting gets interupted if hit - launch those arrows at their casters!
There are other limits I am happy to go into at a later date such as trajectory and poundage etc…
We’re going to have to agree to disagree here. I’d put larp arrows on par with rebated steel weapons in terms of dangerousness.
There are two aspects to this discussion:
1) The level of risk associated with larp arrows.
The physics are pretty straight forward. Something with the shape, mass, and velocity of an arrow will go through your eye, and there are only two things that prevent this from happening - the arrow not hitting your eye, and the protection on the arrow functioning as designed if it does hit your eye.
I’m sure both Derek and Adam could agree on the object risked associated with a particular arrow by inspecting how it is design and wear & tear, pull weight, distance etc. In the end it all depends on how risk averse you are. Derek is more risk averse, Adam is less. Nobody is right or wrong, just in different parts of the risk spectrum.
2) The usefulness of larp arrows
Ranged attacks are extremely useful, and add another dimension to combat tactics. Factor in spell-type effects (Fear, extra damage etc) then, yeah, I can see why Adam quite likes them. From a practical perspective, throwing daggers could play a similar role, although the wouldn’t have the same range if the bows have a higher poundage. We had both in Mordavia, and because the bows were at a low poundage, I could throw a dagger about as far as any arrow.
The problem with throwing daggers is that they are difficult to make (I haven’t got a perfect design yet, but hope to improve my design when I make some throwing daggers for my Knightshade character), but if we could create simple design that was easy to make and accurate to throw, then perhaps we could gain the advantages of arrows without the risk or cost.
The reason I like the idea of larp arrows is precisely because I don’t have to throw them. I have absolutely terrible aim when throwing but am a decent shot at archery. I’d really like to play in a game where I could shoot arrows.
Not taking any sides on the arrow debate, but I’d like to point out that the Wolfgang larp allows and has at least one ranger using bow and arrow. I think there has been a previous debate because they haven’t been all that useful so far, but they are certainly allowed.
I think that’s pretty much right on the button, and even though I don’t think we should use them, I’m not going to avoid a larp that has arrows. I’m happy to do dangerous activities, but I do tend to be reasonably sensible with what precautions I take.
I also have a friend who has a permanent eye injury (permanently relaxed retina) from a rubber tipped SCA arrow that struck while he was wearing a padded steel helmet with a perforated steel visor.
I’ve had a LOT of arrows shot at me over the years, so I’ve seen the crazy unexpected things that they can do. I’m prepared to accept the risk of this happening to me, but I don’t think I’d ever use a larp bow and arrow again, because I’m not prepared to accept the risk of taking out someone else’s eye.
The risk of being hit in the eye by an archer vs. being hit in the eye by a swordsman is about even, but you can block a swordsman while you can shield an arrow. (Not sure where my argument went once I wrote that.) I’m equally not happy with either event. So many head shots occurred in so many larps (both against me , and by me ) that I think the risk would be less from a novice archer than a novice swordsman or crap thrower with spell packets. That’s just based on the chances of being hit from any appreciable distance, and close enough to be hit means that I could rush them. Not a pretty prospect if you’re swords on your hip, and you’re already holding something.
Throwing daggers are under bows in the heat of a battle. Your throwing will be off, and an eye injury can occur. Also, I’ve played with throwing daggers, and the safest place seems to be is where they’re aimed as they’ve all veered erratically.
Also, and wind plays merry hell with all of them, so accuracy from more than a few yards outside is moot.
While everyone is commenting I’ll point out that Knightshade currently allows tailed spell ball arrows AND throwing daggers (or axes or throwing stars too). Neither are not perfect. Main reason they feature in KS = $$$. A phys rep bow and tailed spell balls cost naff all. Low poundage bow blow larp safe arrows = lots of $$$.
Spell ball arrows look ok in flight if made well and fill the mechanic of a ranged weapon well enough. I agree they look a little naff when not being used. This is something I’ve thought about looking into.
I’ll also have to point out that aside from grossly negligent use, spell balls have probably the lowest risk of the range of weapons discussed so far.
They have a tendency to arc down quickly after thrown, meaning they are less likely to hit the eye directly. Real arrows do the same but given the typical range of attack in larp and the fact you do not directly control the force behind an arrow (throw vs. draw).
I’m not trying to sell spell ball arrows on everyone, I’m keen to find a safe alternative even as I type this. Just that if you want to go for the safe option, they’re it.
Or you have point and call missile systems. We can discuss those merits elsewhere.
I think you could build a magazine-fed repeating crossbow that shoots “stakes” make from latex covered camp-mat that would be pretty safe…
One of these…
That shoots these…
Didn’t we end praying for that last game?
I recall all i got was the sound of crickets…
Ok, well I want one of those crossbows. [size=150]No really. I wants.[/size] A lot. I’d allow them in KS even providing if a player has one then the gear library gets one too… please some one makes mez one?
So wait what - a pointy latex coated stake is safer than a flat faced wide diametre foam tipped larp safe arrow…
er
sure… remind me to test fire both at your eye Derik.
[quote=“Xcerus”]So wait what - a pointy latex coated stake is safer than a flat faced wide diametre foam tipped larp safe arrow…
er
sure… remind me to test fire both at your eye Derik.[/quote]
Arrows break and tumble when they hit things. The dangerous end of a larp arrow is the nock end.
Traditionally, weapons are test fired against the people who think they should be allowed. Not the people who think they shouldn’t.
Anyway. I accept that the spongy bit on the front of the arrow is safe. It’s the arse end that troubles me. I’ve been hit by the knocks of rebounding arrows in SCA combat and they hurt.
One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn’t belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?