well…
0 voters
lets throw one of them on roleplays yes or nay?
should GMs state a level of historical authenticity, for ROLEPLAYING, before the game?
esp. concerning
-chicks
-race relations
-servents/class systems in general
i know it’s all personal taste, but do you think the GM should state the level required before the game?
That’s a restriction, may turn people away…
GMs usually state the desired level of autenticity anyway, and players usually respect it.
Hm, if you can find a way to not make it offencive… Even the famous “Who worships Satan? Black people!” from Ravenholme may sound offensive to someone, and this one is not that bad yet…
[quote=“Aiwe”]
Hm, if you can find a way to not make it offencive… Even the famous “Who worships Satan? Black people!” from Ravenholme may sound offensive to someone, and this one is not that bad yet…[/quote]
It is pretty bad taken out of context.
If an organiser wants something other than the established norm in our player base (jokey faux-historical play) then yes they’ll need to state what they’re after in advance. But it doesn’t need to be formalised or anything, just stated. That will also warn off people who aren’t interested in the restrictions that come with the play style.
Organisers would also be well advised to also provide players with resources showing what sort of characterisation they mean, or they’ll probably be disappointed with the outcome.
Frex, when I ran Tryst I gave players a handbook which I think gave them a pretty decent idea of the tone without being explicit about it. In play there was not a bit of jokeyness about the game, except suitably IC humour. And jokes made OOC in downtime between the IC vignettes. On the other hand, the event was modern-day and players were playing versions of themselves, so it was much easier for them to achieve “accurate” roleplay rather than the usual loose approximation of IC culture.
[quote=“FauxCyclops”][quote=“Aiwe”]
Hm, if you can find a way to not make it offencive… Even the famous “Who worships Satan? Black people!” from Ravenholme may sound offensive to someone, and this one is not that bad yet…[/quote]
It is pretty bad taken out of context.[/quote]
In context it still didn’t sound tolerant. Sorry, that’s the only example I could think of.
[quote=“Aiwe”][quote=“FauxCyclops”][quote=“Aiwe”]
Hm, if you can find a way to not make it offencive… Even the famous “Who worships Satan? Black people!” from Ravenholme may sound offensive to someone, and this one is not that bad yet…[/quote]
It is pretty bad taken out of context.[/quote]
In context it still didn’t sound tolerant. Sorry, that’s the only example I could think of.[/quote]
It wasn’t tolerant in-character by any means, I mean that from an out-of-character perspective it was used ironically.
edit: For the record, I did not say this line
I would definately not advocate this, for the simple reason, by what standard do the GM’s base “Historical Authenticity” on.
that term is such a hot potato that it is near undefinable, one mans authenticity is anothers anachronisim.
what are you going to say, “no synthetic fabrics allowed”, All costume must be hand sewn, dyed, spun/woven" you are not allowed to look a player of higher social rank than you in the eye" and forget about flushable toilets, soap, toilet paper, coffee, chocolate, potatoes, gas, electric ovens or cookers, spectacles, and well, our swords will have to go as well, (no latex sorry)
where do you draw the line, you could even say that no one can play because we have had innoculation shots.
[quote=“Carl”]
where do you draw the line, you could even say that no one can play because we have had innoculation shots.[/quote]
Indeed where to draw the line has been a problem not only with historical accuracy in larps, but also living history and re-enactment for years.
At the end of the day, one has to accept some middle ground. for example I am keen to play new Brittania, toward that end i want a 1894 holding pattern military tunic for my character. However, given time and budget restraints I can only obtain the original pattern, the rest of that tunic will be made using whatever material i can find that fits the colours and the look, it will also be machine sewn, as i suck at hand sewing and again lack the funds to have one made of me, (the best offer i received was 200 dollars, which is only 20 dollars less than a repo from over seas.)
Will i then be punished for not trying even though i have made an effort to be a representation of an English Victorian officer if not a totally accurate one?
One problem that arises from this sort of thinking is falling into the same trap the ermine street guard fell into. amongst roman living history groups these guys are the bomb, they are perhaps the closest thing to real roman Miles one can find outside of a time machine. they are also one of the smallest groups in Europe.
why? because they have set the standard in equipment and accuracy so high that many potential new members are put off by the cost and level detail they represent. The irony is that no one in the ermine street guard expects this level of commitment from newbies, but that is how they are perceived.
The best I believe that larping community should expect is some degree of accuracy, but allowances should be made for all to participate. An honest attempt is just as good as total accuracy.
Wherever you want?
perhaps it’s all connected, but this thread was specifically about the way people behave in game, not their clothing, equipment or immunization status. 
gotta admit though, the effort put in by the people at the latest Ravenholme game was awesome. The costumes were beautiful and it really did add to the feeling of the game. i guess every bit helps!
Ryan’s right - draw the line where ever you want and then let the community decide whether they want to meet your standards or not.
There’s nothing stopping someone from going hard and accessing historically accurate kit or learning accurate cultural mannerisms that exceed the GM’s minimum standard.
For example, Mordavia had people who used totally fake armour and people who used real armour. Both met the stated standard of looking like what it represented, and that’s fine by me. Although I don’t think anyone got maximum gear points if they used fake gear where they could have used real gear.
Yes, we had a dual system for gear. We allowed almost anything to encourage inclusiveness, but gave rewards for excellence to promote overall improvement. The same thing applied to roleplay, really. Worked quite well in terms of shifting the middle-quality activities towards high-quality, but it wouldn’t work so well for an organiser who didn’t want any low or middle-quality stuff at all. We did have minimum standards, but they were basically “no sneakers, jeans or other obviously modern stuff, and stay in character whenever possible” - but we never kicked anyone out for failure to meet them, just tried to encourage them to improve or lent them stuff. We wanted to be inclusive because we were building a player base from low numbers in a not-entirely-serious setting. I certainly don’t claim it’s the only valid approach, just one that worked for our situation.
I think it would be equally valid for organisers to set a very high or specific standard (for roleplay, gear, whatever) and expect anyone attending to comply. They shouldn’t be surprised if a number of people choose not to attend. What would be disappointing is people attending but not attempting to meet the standards, or not attending and whining about the standards.
On the other hand, it’s worth noting that standards of roleplay are much harder to judge than standards of gear. Firstly, it’s harder to define what is and isn’t suitable roleplay for a period in a way that’ll allow players to adhere to it. One option is to give a list of recommended reading/watching, and ask players to base their roleplay on the culture of the characters in the fiction. Another is to provide a detailed description of the culture and a list of dos and don’ts. Secondly, while you can check out everyone’s gear at the start of a larp and it probably won’t change much throughout, the same isn’t true for roleplay. Roleplay in larp often takes place away from the people who want it to adhere to a standard. And the roleplayers themselves may find themselves unsure or disagreeing on how the cultural standard should apply to a situation, but justifiably unwilling to break character to discuss it. So I think a bit more leeway would always have to be give to roleplay, at least until a strong consensus has been reached among players as to what’s appropriate, which generally can only happen part way through a campaign.
On the other hand, it’s reasonable to be as strict as you like on “staying in character”, so long as players have enough knowledge of their character and the setting. And in a modern setting that players are closely familiar with strict adherance to the culture could reasonably be asked for immediately.
Heh, funny thing about gear and the actual roleplaying, same as with many things in life: the objective physically presented something (gear) vs subjective not exactly physically presented something (roleplaying behaviour). That explains why this talk comes back to the actual gear all the time - as you said, the behaviour can change. Also, it can be adjusted if needed. Plus, it’s kinda difficult to see if it’s really non-authentic in many cases.
With gear all is usually more or less clear - jeans are not medieval, helmets - are. So…
But what I actually wanted to say is that even with our current extremely supportive, caring, and lenient GMs the classic phrase “I can’t play this game, I don’t have a costume” appears all the time. Complaining about “I suck at roleplaying” sounds far more rare than stuff like “I have no costume”.
ROFL! I’m pretty sure I say this all the time! I seem to spend about the next 4 days after a larp going “DAMN, why didn’t I think to do/say that!” grrrr. Maybe everyone does that. 
ROFL! I’m pretty sure I say this all the time! I seem to spend about the next 4 days after a larp going “DAMN, why didn’t I think to do/say that!” grrrr. Maybe everyone does that. [/quote]
I really hope so, because I do…
[quote=“theotherphoenix”]ROFL! I’m pretty sure I say this all the time! I seem to spend about the next 4 days after a larp going “DAMN, why didn’t I think to do/say that!” grrrr. Maybe everyone does that. [/quote]It’s a thought I am already quite familiar with. 
Me too…
I spent ages after Ravenholme mentally thinking about all the ways I sucked as Lady Capulet, and what I should have done instead.
Yep, I occaisonally still think “why didn’t I do X?” about the Maelstrom game I played in the UK two years ago. That was an awesome game, but I got a little shy over my plans to address big crowds of strangers and sort of chickened out. I found something else important-seeming to do that wasn’t really as important as it turned out. Wish I had explored that other aspect of my character before he died.
OMG. I thought I was one of the very few like that 
Ok, there are a lot of us who are not totally happy with their roleplaying - but will this stop you from playing again?
What I was trying to say is that complains about lacking costume as reason for not coming to the game are more often than any other reason, even the lack of money. Or is it just me who happens to be around people talking about that? I just had impression this is the main trouble for many larpers, and we obviously don’t want to make the situation even more difficult for them.
[quote=“Aiwe”]What I was trying to say is that complains about lacking costume as reason for not coming to the game are more often than any other reason, even the lack of money. Or is it just me who happens to be around people talking about that? I just had impression this is the main trouble for many larpers, and we obviously don’t want to make the situation even more difficult for them.[/quote]It’s difficult for people like me, because I see all these folks in all their shiny things, and often think how utterly grotesque I would look alongside them in my pathetic attempt at a hand-sewn outfit.
That said, if I really wanted to attend a game in future that required a special kind of costume I didn’t have, I’d make an effort to find one. Op shops are my friend. It may be basic, but to my mind it’s far superior to playing in jeans and a T-shirt.
Bottom line: If people say they don’t have a costume, a lot of the time they’re probably just not that keen on the game in question. IMO. Either that, or they want to be able to make the game, but feel that anything they come up with would be “substandard”.