Groups in large LARPs; good idea or bad?

Community Larp discussion
#1

(by “large” I mean in excess of 30-odd players, for those of us lucky enough to have played in really large games)

While cleaning up at Teonn on Sunday, someone (you know who you are, but I ain’t outing you here :wink: ) commented that having groups running around together is bad/detrimental/not good (can’t remember the exact words) for the game; I was going to ask about it but we got busy and ran out of time. So I’m opening it up to general discussion, as personally I think having a group of people to run around with and have some camaraderie with is a good thing - however the one making the comment struck me as a perfectly reasonable and intelligent person, who probably had very good reasons for having the opinion they did, and I’m new to large larps and don’t know what I’m talking about :stuck_out_tongue:

What are people’s thoughts on groups (for Teonn as an example; Guard, Seafarers, Troupe) in a large LARP? Good idea? Bad idea? Most importantly to this discussion, why?

Please keep this conversation to groups, and refrain from talking about individuals, if at all possible :slight_smile:

Viperion

#2

[quote=“Viperion”](by “large” I mean in excess of 30-odd players, for those of us lucky enough to have played in really large games)

What are people’s thoughts on groups (for Teonn as an example; Guard, Seafarers, Troupe) in a large LARP? Good idea? Bad idea? Most importantly to this discussion, why?
[/quote]

As a new player it was fantastic to be part of a sub-group within the game. The main reasons were

  1. I was instantly part of A Story. It wasn’t THE story but it gave me people to interact with and things to do while the main story was building up. While it may not be the same for all groups the Troupe was great.

  2. Experienced players have the ability to leap in and get to the core story and guide it until it revolves around them. Not all players are like this and the groups create smaller environments for the shyer players to be involved and included without forcing them into uncomfortable situations in larger groups.

  3. More cohesion. The smaller groups organise themselves so while it still seems like chaos I suspect it is quicker to organise a large group when you do need to get everyone together for the big moments.

I can only see a single downside at the moment

  1. More story arcs. A big single story is all very well but the sub-groups work better when they have some external pressures. In the case of the troupe a number of players had back-story elements that were in play and helped drive stories for the whole troupe as they were dragged into them. Presumably this requires more work from the GM’s to try and ensure the disparate groups have mini plots.
#3

In St. Wolfgang’s I was in a small group of 5 (later 6) and it was great for a first-time weekend larper. I had shared back-story which meant I had lots going on, and really felt fear/emotion when PCs I knew so well were hurt.

Then, when things happened to me, they also got to ride that wave. I’ll forever treasure Bryn, as Jean, talking sternly to Le Stirge about making an “honest woman” out of his sister…

I think when you’re part of a group you’ve got more you can do in downtime. More social RP at the very least. And you can have more of a presence at the game.

However, I think you can also run the risk of being too isolated/insular and that might make it more challenging to interact with people outside of your sphere. That’s not a bad thing, always, but can lead to perceptions of ‘clique-y’ behaviour.

There may also be the worry from players who aren’t in part of a group that they’ll miss out on big/personal plots because the big groups are more likely to get them.

Another potential downside is that your character may not be seen as quite an individual. For example, if you play with a large group of clowns (please, please don’t …) and play Bob the Clown, you’re in danger of being remembered as: “one of the clowns… I think his name is Bob.”

But I’m all for groups, especially when they contribute positively to the game and are inclusive! In all the pics of LARPs around the world it’s the group shots that look so awesome to me - in part because I love the visual look but also because I’m intrigued by the idea of the complex social dynamics of getting to know an entire connected group of people. Heaps of fun RP opportunities there!

#4

Large groups can work well, but I believe it needs to be considered by the GM’s when it comes to plots. I loved the way the last Teonn game went with lots and lots of available plots for people to get involved with.

The Seafarers had a tresure hunt, a great in story plot arc that probably didn’t influence any of the larger plots, but involved them as a group and got them doing something for the afternoon.

Some of the smaller groups got things going to, I know in the first game, the Grey Cloaks (3 people) got a piece of the plot on sunday morning. So there are things for large and small groups.

I can only comment on Teonn as I’ve not been involved in any other Continuing LARPs, but I’d be happy with either a small or large group, depending on the setting and character concepts, as long as the GM’s involved said group, at some point in the weekend.

#5

Big group would always generate small groups inside it, that’s just how it works psychologically, but I think there is some difference between pre-generated groups and those that evolved naturally.

I agree with most of stuff said above on groups. Groups are very helpful for roleplaying, plots, filling the gaps and generally having fun, especial importance comes for newbies. However, groups make separation between players look sharper, and if you are part of the group that doesn’t get much plot and the other group gets a lot (for a good reason of them having three times more people, so GMs are trying to cover more of them there), then you will feel isolated, and you can’t go join the fun because you are in another group.

Can you see the problem here? The group that has several experienced people will multiply all this stuff, and again people from other groups can’t even join in because of the groups separation.

I think groups work well when they don’t dominate the game. In Teonn (IMHO :mrgreen: ) they totally do, which is why that person is probably not happy with the current situation.
I’m kinda even scared to try go play Teonn, because the social structure there seems very established and rigid. Again, imho, as I haven’t seen that much. Maybe I’ll just keep crewing so I don’t have to solve the problem of integrating me into something that seriously structured.

#6

A group of people below 7 is good, as every member retains their individuality, while still remaining influential enough as a group (in a game the size of teonn). Above 7, you are able to influence more of the plot (as a group), but you have less and less personal influence and appearance as the group gets bigger.

As was said about the pirates on Saturday night; “honestly, we can’t tell them apart either”.

I don’t think big groups are bad or good, they just have different advantages and disadvantages to smaller groups (and let’s not go into how big groups can hog the plot from individuals).

#7

Groups in groups is the level we need to get to. A faction that has its own groups works very well because while you are all part of a whole (ship crew) there are different groups within that: Gun crew, officers, navy personel (fighters) etc

#8

I’m not. If I attend a game, I’d go in as an independent mercenary. The groups would then provide people for me to work for, kick against, or to join, depending on how things panned out. They’re ready-made sources of story for new players, whether you join one or not.

#9

I’m not. If I attend a game, I’d go in as an independent mercenary. The groups would then provide people for me to work for, kick against, or to join, depending on how things panned out. They’re ready-made sources of story for new players, whether you join one or not.[/quote]

I am biased but I approve of this idea. I don’t see the social structure as being either established or rigid. I see certain very capable roleplayers carving themselves out niches but it is still a very young fluid situation. This last game was really a reboot of certain social aspects. A certain degree of self confidence, along with a character not afraid to interact with the groups will do well.

Anyone come to talk to the Grey Cloaks recently? I found work and plot to share with 4 more players of no established group over the weekend. It could have easily been more since I actively recruited those 4 but would have taken any other volunteers. That’s not a huge amount but if those feeling a little left out came forward then there are other groups to combine with. Plenty of work for mercenaries or militia it seems. Everyone needs more healers. More potion makers.

There is plenty of scope out there. Plenty of experienced players with groups who are likely to help you find your niche. Come and have a chat… or send a PM… I’ll help you out if I can.