Dogma 2007

Community Larp discussion
#108

John Travolta three best known roles in Welcome Back Kotter, Saturady Night Fever and Pulp Fiction. These are all pretty much the same character at dirrent ages. I personally though his performance in Phenomenon was Ok while he played himself but as he got further from reality it got flat.

This is not Strasborg method.

And while this may promote a mechaniacl understanding it does not alwys promote realism as the actor is ialways asking how would I as a modern metrosexual 2007 male handle world war two. This distorts. Also it still assumes cause and effect, which free will and quantum physics obliterates.

I did not say many of the top 100 films did not have method actors in them. I said not many of the top 100 earners were noted for selling because of their psychological realism. Not the same thing.

I like DiCaprio. He is famous for being an anti-method actor. It is noted that when the call is made he stops playing pool, hands his cigarette to a stage hand and asks the director what his line is. No angsting over motivation. He just acts.

As I said before most metod is about adding emotional intensity and not realism. There are lots of ways of adding intensity, Adler, Chechov or Suszuki istantly come to mind. Or you can do what many of the great actors do, just drop the method and act.

#109

Viggo Mortensen’s method approach to Aragorn was hammered constantly in the promotional material. It’s impossible to know what actually sells any given film so your point isn’t falsifiable, but psychological realism was certainly attempted as a selling point for LotR. And it is an example of method acting in an unusual genre. I suspect I could go through the top 100 grossers and demonstrate that the method acting in many of them didn’t prevent them from selling well, which I think refutes your underlying point that method acting is only suitable to a small number of popular films.

You’re essentially saying that an actor can’t properly empathise with some characters, so they should just say their lines and try to portray the character rather than empathise with them. That raises the question of how the writer or director can know what the character should say or how they should behave, but the actor can’t. The problem is irreducible, eventually someone somewhere has to decide what the character should do. When it comes to portrayal, why shouldn’t that person be the actor?

Referring this discussion back to larp again, who should decide what a character does and why? Surely the player of the character. What should they use as a basis for those decisions? According to you, they probably can’t empathise with the character, so what should be the basis of their decision? Whatever would make the most interesting story? Whatever would be most likely to achieve the character’s predetermined goals? Something else?

If a player wants to feel their character’s emotions, wouldn’t the best way to achieve that be something akin to method acting, putting themselves in their character’s shoes and trying to think as them rather than just portray them? Of course, not all players have emotional connection with their character as a goal but for those who do, what approach do you suggest?

#110

[quote=“Alista”]
This distorts. Also it still assumes cause and effect, which free will and quantum physics obliterates.[/quote]

What in gods name does Quantum Physics have to do with acting.

If an actor has to play a character outside his current scope of experience then he;

1 researches the situation as much as possible

2 uses thier imagination

3 uses thier Talent (thats why they get paid the big bucks after all)

or 4 hires a kickass publicist to spin thier shite performance into an oscar nomination which overshadows the fact they suck

acting is a creative process, do you use Einstien’s theory of tunnel gravitational oppsie whatsits to describe Sir Lawrence Olivier’s performance of Hamlet…WELL DO YOU!!!

Do you use a slide rule to calculate the mitre of “Leaves of Grass” NO!

do you put the Mona Lisa into an MRI machine to find out what the canvas is made of HELL NO!!

Stop using an artless process to describe Art you…you…GEEK!!!

Do you break down Beethoven’s Ode to Joy into a Sine wave to analyse the acoustic properties of your Ass…I dont know maybe you do…but anyway

You hate method acting OK WE GET IT Strasbourg and Stanislavski should be hung and burned fine that is your opinion.

And to quote an actor that i am sure you will think is SOOOOO very Method, Paul Hogan, “Opinions are like Arseholes, Everyone has one.”

Why Dont you Pick On EMO music for a while, that is slipping under the radar a bit at present. Or the Greens, Or the fact that Britney Spears is going totally Libriarian Poo.

ANYTHING BUT ACTING.

All said with the upmost respect BTW :smiley:

#111

It was good to see that the Quest game challenged the boundaries of larp acting.

Playing in a public park, with parked cars, WWII war relics and families walking their children in strollers really set off the groups of orcs in white sneakers and nylon board shorts running around shouting “aargh”.

With this heady backdrop of immersive excellence I can see why we need to discuss the finer points of how players get into character.

I am now going to unload all the costumes from my car that I brought down to Hamilton that we didn’t use.

Shame really because the Quest costumes were for the most parts rectangular pieces of cloth with a hole in them for your head - if you were lucky. If you were unlucky, you got a jagged rag with a hole in the middle for your head - that smelled musty.

Mmm.

I think the worst thing was that people who had turned up in really cool costumes ended up having to remove them to put on inferior costumes. That was very demoralizing.

I would really like to have seen Leonardo DiCaprio trying to act in the Titanic wearing board shorts, T shirt and sneakers. I’m sure his ability to “act” would have carried him through though!

#112

Polietly speaking, I think that’s highly unfair of you, Derek.

Quest Waikato in my opinion is a game more about fun than realism, and I’m quite sure alot of fun was had last night.

I’m also quite sure that orcs and undead are hardly specialists in mordern style and hygiene… ripped cloth would be quite appropriate for them, IMO.

As one of the peolple who de-costumed to NPC, I hardly felt “demoralised” and a probably had more fun as a Ghoul/Ghost/Humphrey :wink: than I would have as Shiori, my Shugenja.

Is this the time to ask where you disappeared to? About half way through the game, we needed some numbers for an organised encounter and our only ghoul with the ability to run ( what was with that?) had long gone…

Never mind. I’m sure paying $120 to look up alien porn was far more fun.

#113

Some people are quite happy with the ‘suspension of reality’ type of play.

My little sister’s favourite game was bows and arrows. They were make-believe, not phys-reped by anything. But we would have to take the arrows off her and put them in the top of the cupboard where she couldn’t reach them, and she’d sit there and cry because of it.

Get real, Derek, and have some tolerance for people who don’t want to spend their entire life savings on making people like you happy.

And yes, pun entirely intended

#114

I think it certainly wasn’t polite of me. Probably not very friendly. Certainly somewhat inflamitory. But I think I’ve been pretty fair.

15 odd years ago the Quest games were better than this. After Alista was touting the finer points of larping and acting in great detail, I was expecting something a bit more special.

That’s a nice thing to say, but I don’t believe you.

I was double booked with nibbles so I’d always planned to leave around 9ish. That was one of the reasons I wanted to crew.

Can’t help but enjoy those three breasted Venesians :smiley:

#115

I do.

I do much more than tolerate them. I give away, lend, hire and sell literally tons of equipment to people.

But when people set the bar low, I’ll tell them how low it is as well. Some hate me for it, which really doesn’t worry me. Some accept the challenge and lift it. I’m happy to help them lift it as well.

#116

You miss my point. The ‘bar’ shouldn’t have to be lifted.

#117

And there I guess is where we’ll just have to disagree.

#118

As someone trying to market Quest to everyone out there, the last game went less than perfectly. From that point of view I was less than happy.

HOWEVER

Points missed…
Yes Quest NPC costumes leave a lot to be desired. Yes it is a shame.
Sadly Quest does not have the resources available that it may once have had.
I would love to see Quest really well equiped. If I had the spare cash I’d love to invest in Quest… believe it or not but the system (if not the resources) is highly playable.

We would have borrowed your costumes but we sadly didn’t know whay was brought. Part of this has to do with the next point.

Next point.
The game was poorly organised.
The GM kind of got skittled by the lack of his support crew at the very beginning. It happens. Game got off to a rocky start.
We have a range of GM’s, a range of game styles, every game is completely unique. (Even the exact same game plan will always end up different)
By that token not every game is perfect but some are very very fun.

I think a lot of people had fun. They may have had to stretch their imaginations but the typical larper certainly has enough spare brain power to fill in the gaps that the costumes miss.

But we do view some of this criticism as positive. We know what is lacked in the resource department.

Onwards and upwards
Jared
[/b]

#119

Hi Derek, good to see you again

[quote=“Derek”]It was good to see that the Quest game challenged the boundaries of larp acting.

Playing in a public park, with parked cars, WWII war relics and families walking their children in strollers really set off the groups of orcs in white sneakers and nylon board shorts running around shouting “aargh”.

With this heady backdrop of immersive excellence I can see why we need to discuss the finer points of how players get into character.
[/quote]

Cool, I thought you would get it. We are not into acting, we are into Role Playing. Anyone can role play in an immersive game, it takes talent to Role Play when there are distractions. Sorry the wandering peasants put you off.

We take issue with this. They are square, not rectangular.

[quote=“Derek”]
I would really like to have seen Leonardo DiCaprio trying to act in the Titanic wearing board shorts, T shirt and sneakers. I’m sure his ability to “act” would have carried him through though! [/quote]
Actually I would like to see that too. Being an anti-method actor I’d give him equal odds. If David Bowie can play the Elephant Man without make up, why can’t DiCaprio. I have have seen a director reading a part from a script while wearing jeans in an Edwardian play. Nobody noticed after the first two minutes. He had talent.

I was impressed with the quality of Role Play. The ghouls doing a mating dance. But that was after you left. The orcs promoting their number. But again that was also you left. The humphrie attack and the orcs reaction. Sorry that was again after you left. The druid acting as decoy and the heroism of the fighter. Again after you left. In fact all the good role play happened after you left. I’m sorry that you missed it. Must have just taken a little while to get into character. Summary. 21 players present. 16 definate returns. 1 no return and 4 possibles. A good nights play.

#120

As a scientist, you must surely know that squares are a subset of rectangles. The statement “they are square, not rectangular” is logically flawed.

I don’t know if the “1 no return” is meant to be me or not, but I never said I wouldn’t be coming back. The hardest thing to get in this game is players. Motivating them to desire excellence is easy in comparison. There wasn’t anyone at the game whose company I didn’t enjoy.

I just think that with the same people and a bit more effort you could have a lot more fun.

My post above was made after getting up after five hours sleep. I don’t disagree with what I said, but had I been a bit more rested I probably would have just kept my mouth shut.

Shortly, I’m going to post my ideas on how to get a larp game going in a “better” direction. That’s “better” for me.

#121

[quote=“Carl”]do you put the Mona Lisa into an MRI machine to find out what the canvas is made of HELL NO!! [/quote]Oh, well, actually people have X-rayed it to look at the underlayers of paint and the charcoal sketch on the canvas. And there’s a lot of mathematics and anatomical knowledge and colour theory that goes into painting well. Which comment is a digression because I agree with you in principle anyway, because the science and the maths are contributing tools, not the art itself.

I’ll shut up now, shall I?

#122

[quote=“Derek”]
15 odd years ago the Quest games were better than this. After Alista was touting the finer points of larping and acting in great detail, I was expecting something a bit more special.[/quote]

Ah, Derek, I would like to remind you that the game you played with us 15 years ago was a special deal - our infamous and much frothed about cave module at Waitomo. This had a bigger budget, our general pool of players was much more experienced, and as it was a special event we were able to convince players to run around in spray paint and loin cloths (remember our trolls - everyone instantly recognised them - monster lore or no monster lore).

Please bear in mind that we are rebuliding our player base after a recession where the creative driving forces behind Quest have been forced to concentrate on real life (and in the mean time many of our experienced players have graduated and moved on, or become too ‘grown up’ for LRP). Currently we are playing catch-up and module fees are paying money owed to our financers for things like maintainence of weaponry, consumables, and simple costumes for undead.

To be honest, returning after a 5 year hiatus, I was somewhat dismayed by the state of the Quest costume closet. I do plan to rectify certain lacks as the Quect organisation can afford it. I am donating my time, but I am not prepared to donate the thousands of dollars which this could potentially suck up.

I for one was not aware you had a car full of costumes - I am always interested to see what other people have made, if for no other reason than if I get a chance to see something I can usually manufacture a reasonable copy/variation of it. My big dissappointment for the night was that I thought you had a car full of leather and was hoping to buy some - cest la vie, I’ll have to stick with tacky vinyl in the meantime. :frowning:

It is unfortunate you seem to have missed the best characterisations. I think several people were awarded small role-play bonuses for the evening.

Finally, thank you for your feedback. While some of your comments may be slightly inflammatory, I do not think you meant this as an attack on Quest or the players, who, from the feedback we have had so far seem generally to have enjoyed themselves. Feedback is a good thing it helps us learn and it helps us develop. Feedback will not always be all good, but we are grown up enough to cope with that.
:wink:

#123

It’s interesting what attracts people into something like larping as they get older. When they’re in the 14-18 camp, running around whacking people is pretty much enough for most larpers. However, as they mature (read “get more boring”) their tastes change. Many drift more into reinactment, partially I am sure because it seems to have more intellectual legitimacy.

I honestly believe that to retain participants as they mature you need to have more on offer than just a party of adventurers killing wandering monsters. You need to seriously encourage people to improve skills like sewing and making armour and weapons. Try a feasts where people have an evening of dancing and singing around a campfire.

I probably spend vastly more on costumes than the average larper. Probably more than I should if I ever want to pay off my mortgage. I’ll be the last person to say that you don’t need to spend lots of money to get good kit.

However, most of it can cost less than people think it does. Especially if you ask people who are already making stuff where they get materials. I used to get steel for almost free for armouring by taking beer on a friday afternoon to an engineering company and getting their scraps. $15 in beer would get me steel I’d normally have had to pay $100 for if it wasn’t seconds/offcuts.

Another example, Craig has just built a spaceship. When I was helping with some of the electronics, I noticed he was purchasing nuts and bolts in packets of 10 from Miter 10. He probably spend $50+ on nuts and bolts he could have purchased for $20 if he’d known where to get them.

I had a few sets of armour, various medieval clothing and a centaur. Unfortunately, they didn’t fit with the plot. Maybe next time…

Sorry. PM me your postal address and what you want to build and I’ll send you some samples. Most of it is heavy leather (like Jarred’s greaves and vambraces). I’m pretty much out of softer leather now.

#124

[quote=“Derek”]

Another example, Craig has just built a spaceship. When I was helping with some of the electronics, I noticed he was purchasing nuts and bolts in packets of 10 from Miter 10. He probably spend $50+ on nuts and bolts he could have purchased for $20 if he’d known where to get them.
.[/quote]

Apologies to craig if i am wrong, BUT…

at the commitee meeting i was under the distinct impression that the ship cost in total 5000 dollars ($5000). even if one were to cut corners and and call in some favours that ship would still have cost over 2000,

not a very good example i think.

#125

I think that lots of favours were called in.

It certainly looked like fun on Friday night when I was there…

#126

[quote=“Wulfen (David)”]at the commitee meeting i was under the distinct impression that the ship cost in total 5000 dollars ($5000). even if one were to cut corners and and call in some favours that ship would still have cost over 2000,

not a very good example i think.[/quote]

Nibbles is an ambitious project. People can be less ambitious and still get good results. There is a big big gap between getting your orcs out of board shorts and reeboks and purchasing three space suits with the little bubble helmets.

I’m going to draw up a couple of very simple affordable patterns for the type of medieval/fantasy costume that can be made in an evening.

#127

Cool. Thanks for that. We’ve got a few designs already, but then again a few more won’t do any harm. I must admit down here we’ve always thought that the key to good Live Role Play was good Live Role Players, the costumes are a bit of the icing on the cake. Icing is good.

At the moment, the main problem is monster costumes and elemental costumes. That is where the money is going at the moment. Contrary to what you said,

That’s a nice thing to say, but I don’t believe you.
[/quote]
our biggest problem is getting parties. Getting people to play monsters is easy, usually we have to force people into parties. I don’t know if you noticed of the people that voulenteered party, only two were from down here. And one of them was told they had to be in the party. You should be nice to BurningSol and apologise for disbelieving her. I think our guys are really happy for Orklanders to come down so they can have fun as the baduys.