Death in games

Community Larp discussion
#1

[size=150]Death[/size]

Death is not generally final in Sundereth. It is if theres no one left to drag your corpse out of combat or simply if everyone that knows you’re out there is dead also.
It is much harder to return if you have been zombified.
On the other hand, if you have regions of the world were those spells don’t work & a GM wanted to run a game that you couldn’t be returned in, then they would use one of those dark realms where death meant death.
Of course, at players choice they could always be carted out of the realm to a region that allowed it but they would be dead for that game, be it a day, a weekend or whatever.

As a fantasy I think it’s important to give people the choice, I mean i have one set of kit, so if a character of mine dies permanently then I would be forced to use the same gear over & over, potentially just cloning the old character when it died.

A lot of us like heroic characters & like to be able to play them long term. We all have personal views on this but we should at least give them a choice now & then?

#2

I like to keep playing the same character over and over. I think you get more into character as you learn the quirks of your PC. Sure you can write up an impressive story for your character but they always get more fleshed out over time as they encounter more situations you haven’t prepared them for.

Coming back from the dead can be an interesting experience. It changes your perspective on things. But it should cost you significantly one way or another.

#3

Returning from the dead should never be taken for granted.
It should be costly for the player in terms of resource & also in terms of XP if used.
If returned in game they should lose a portion of or all XP gained up to death & potentially a portion of XP already earned (although this could be messy to administer).
Characters returned after a game is already over because of some means, such as a magical insurance or the like would remove all or some of XP earned over the weekend.
Of course that shouldn’t affect reward given if playing an NPC.
It should always cost in terms of a monetary cost, should that play a part in games. Components for such spells may be rare, characters may be required to fetch a rare or hard to get component for it to even be possible, either to replace that used or to be able to have it cast full stop.
Of course, dead characters may not wish to be returned & there will always be circumstances in which it is impossible to be returned.
Crucial events, such as slaying the big bad at the end are an example of where failure would be absolute. Or when the entire group is wiped out by the big bad minions & there is no hope of being returned.

Two spells in Sundereth game system:
Reinvigorate Fallen- Allows intact, returned corpses, who have died within the last 24 hours & haven’t been interfered with to be returned to life. If you lose a body part, you will be missing it when returned. If it can be found, it can be reattached with this spell.
It is very draining on the caster & will have an expensive component.
This is themed on the miracle workers pill from the Princess Bride.

Reincarnate- Returns a character with only a fragment of their person (such as some hair or a finger or a vial of blood). They are returned to life fully but are often missing some of their memories & will be returned with somewhere between 50-80% of their characters Cp. Only XP gained as an NPC (after they died presumably) will be allotted to this character.
Again, this will be expensive & draining.

Both of these will be subject to the game world physics of the realm in which the character died.
Some realms are so heavily polluted with the dark magics of the void that those that die there cannot be returned.
It is in these dark places players have the most to lose & will be known to the players characters, so that they have the choice to enter.
Of course crucial events tend to take place in these parts.

#4

In Nibelungen, androids can back themselves up and be restored from backups at any point.

If anyone else dies, they’re dead. Shikadi haven’t cured dying yet.

#5

In most games, I think death should be either final or extremely expensive. It makes people think twice about putting their characters in potentially deadly situations, rather than simply throwing themselves at the enemy.

On the other hand, I know from experience that it is easy to be a hypocrite on this point when actually confronted with the possibility of my character’s death. The last time it happened, I made a game-changing mistake in trying to preserve myself and I got the GMs very upset with me.

I think acceptance of death is one of the noblest things a LARPer can do, as it can be very easy to just kick into survival instinct mode and try to work your way out of it if possible. I feel I have yet to really take this lesson to heart. :frowning:

#6

I prefer that courage is not diluted by by the possibility of coming back to life.

But I also prefer that death doesn’t just happen because you run out of hit points.

I like Mordavia and St Wolfgang where the act of killing is not accidental and is a specific action.

#7

I’ve never been one for accepting death. I don’t think I’d accept I was going to die IRL either. I’d keep looking for a way to survive. I think most of us are built that way. Survival instincts or whatever.

I think acceptance of death (before the fact) is just giving up. Once you’re dead I think you’re entitled to be a little upset as long as you handle it maturely.

Dylan

#8

It all depends on the game and also the mechanics for death. In a game like Mordavia or St Wolfgangs death is a deliberate act. You can’t bleed to death. So it works fine that death is final. I’m with Derek, if it’s hard to die in the first place, why do you need some kind of resurrection capability ?

In Skirmish, death is what happens when you hit 0 hit points. i.e. it happens all the time. We balance this by enabling PCs to Raise the dead back to life, or carry the body back to the Keep and pay to have it done.

Still, most players are onto the second or third characters because if an entire party gets swamped, then there’s nobody to get you raised. This happens a fair bit. Getting turned into an undead is also final.

#9

[quote=“Derek”]I prefer that courage is not diluted by by the possibility of coming back to life.

But I also prefer that death doesn’t just happen because you run out of hit points.[/quote]

I agree with this.

Also, basing on my experience in the last Ravenholme, IC death might be an amazing and weird experience. 15 seconds ago you’ve been alive and ok, and suddenly after a short intensive fight you fall down and hear the “Finishing Blow” call above you. It’s similar to what you read in some fictions about someone’s spirit watching what’s happening around after the body is dead. That was one of the strongest larping moments for me (well, ok, maybe also because my death brought so much ado around :unamused: )

#10

I played Michael at St Wolfgangs and died charging the breach into the vampires den. It was a good death and while the character wasn’t suicidal, he had accepted that there was a very high chance he’d die.

I remember lying on the ground, barely conscious, with a vampire ready to rip out my throat and the vampire boss yelling out that he’d kill us if the rest of the party advanced and thinking “For the love of God, we are dead already, just charge them and make sure we didn’t die in vain!”

As a player, I would have been disappointed if I had somehow “got better” after that death.

#11

Heres a sneak peak from Sundereth Realms:
Discussion on these to follow.

Revitalise – Returns the almost dead to life. First the spell is cast, which returns the spirit of the deceased to the living world. Next the spirit & her companions quest for an Aetherial of Death & challenge it to combat. Success earns a token from the Aetherial which is then used to return the dead to life at the nearest Astral gate. Failure returns the deceased spirit to the spirit realm but the spell & quest may be re-attempted.
Target corpse must be intact (or they will be missing that part when returned) & have been dead less than 12 hours & will not work on undead corpses (like zombie corpses). [Master, requires spiritual quest, GM]

Re-incarnate – All creatures on Sundereth leave a trace of their existence where-ever they might go.
Any mortal creature of Sundereth can then be reformed from this trace should their mortal bodies be destroyed or lost in some other way. Only the utter damnation of a curse of damnation can prevent this.
Only souls who wish to return can be affected & even then the journey is difficult.
The burning of incense worth 50 silver crowns & casting of this spell returns the spirit of the slain to the realm of the living. Spirits are visible but are incorporeal & intangible, however, the Holy advantage turns them (for 1 minute) & Extreme Unction sends them back to the Astral gate from which they were summoned. Other spirit-like undead may seek to fight spirits & defeat sends the spirit back to the gate (a Spirit has 3 HP & is spiritually equipped as they were in life). A spirit must return to the site of its death & back before midnight on the day of casting or the spell will fail, although it may be recast.
The spirit must travel with as a spirit back to the very place they were killed or destroyed to discover their trace, and then return to the nearest Astral gate to be reborn. At their will, a reborn mortal characters may return, either as they were originally, or as something new altogether.
[Special, cost, spiritual quest, GM]

Some information is witheld on each of these spells

#12

Neither of these spells are to be taken for granted.
Both of these spells represent the pinancle of spell casting ability in this game system & neither return the dead against their will.
Both have a cost, both require a spiritual journey & both can be foiled even once cast, making the journey of return a perilous journey in itself.
In both instances, someone who knows the dead must survive to either cast these spells or return to someone who can.
Several situations will cause either of these 2 spells to fail & they are the most likely to happen when true evil or power is being challenged.
This provides respite for those who wish to return & for those that meet accidental or premature deaths… and provides for fantasy players who desire the option.
In both the examples, given by Derek & Aiwe, it is unlikely they would be returned in those situations, because the vampires would destroy the bodies no doubt & in battle, only the winning side can retrieve the dead.
Still it’s not for everyone, hence the choice…
Perhaps I need an extra advantage for those souls which can’t be returned… would that make sense Derek or Aiwe?

#13

I know one system I’ve seen is where a dead players goes to limbo and talks to death. The outcome is partly in their hands and also part random. You can have real fun with this giving out different plenties and such. The system revolved around not knowing what was going to happen, which can be a big deterant to dying.

#14

I like the sounds of this. Maybe TNC needs some kind of Limbo waiting room, where players can try and talk their way out of death. Or maybe play games for the right to live, or even Sudoku, that would be pretty funny really.

R

#15

I quite like the limbo concept. I’d use it myself but it could be quite hard to administer, especially if you were a bit low on NPC’s. But the idea of using a limbo like marshalling area for dead characters is great though, waiting in deaths foyer so your fate can be decided is quite a nice thought. Cool.

#16

If you’re going to have a lot of death, why not have a PC Death? They can spend some of their time haunting and some of their time dealing with characters one-on-one.

Death could: be often seen around but never talk to you until you are dead.
Seem to know lots about you (why not give this player character sheet access?)
Be generally considered as invisible (though you get the feeling that death is near), and make other (dead) people invisible by putting their hand on the dead person’s shoulder. This way, Death could take the newly dead to see their friends and family. That could be pretty neat.

#17

Again another good idea. Not a bad role for a GM really. Its this kind of idea that makes diatribes useful :smiley: