CD's vs Vinyl Sound Discussions

EDIT FROM YOUR FRIENDLY ADMIN AYESHA: Moved from the System generation discussion in General Discussions.

This is not true! A CD can cover all freqs discerable by human hearing. Average CD (Red book encoding) is PCM at 16-bit sampled at 44100 Hz with an option to have double the sample range up to 96KHz (The average adult would be hard pressed to hear anything over 17KHz) is quite enough. You can add a higher bit rate if you like but I would challenge most peple to tell the difference.

Where a CD is superior to vinyl is in the extremely low frequencies (< 80Hz) where the needle of the traking arm must swing a "long " way in the groove to reproduce these low sounds. When sounds go low enough the needle just cant cope an often jumps out of the groove. A CD doesnt have any such problem.

Feel free to debate this if you like, I’m a qualified Audio engineer and pro-DJ in my earlier life.

My apologies to everyone else on this this thread. Hopefully we quickly deal with the above issue then move on

Shame on you. Shame on you. As a qualified Audio Engineer you should know better. The standard “Red book” CD format which is what everyone buys from the store uses a 16 bit Pulse code modulated sample with a 44.1kHz sample rate for 2 channels.

Due to Nyquist Aliasing the greatest frequency that can be recorded is 22.05kHz which is within the range of some humans hearing. At this frequency all that is presented is a pure square wave, basically a Dalek on helium. It is only at the 11kHz range that one can even begin to attempt to approximate the shape of the sine wave. This is within the hearing range of most humans. At this frequency even small quantisation effects can have a big difference on the wave being represented. Also any clock freqency shifting will have discernable effects on the audio signal. When in these regions there is also artifacts created by converting high frequency square waves into sine waves that have to be dealt with. All combined, this affects the tonal quality of the note that is reproduced and does nasty things to the harmonics of the note. The basic problem has always been that CD format is a digital approximation of an analogue signal.

Most people cannot or do not want to notice these effects. But you, as a qualified audio engineer, should be able to hear them. The easiest way to solve these problems would be to increase the sampling rate. The original rate of 44.1kHz was inherited from a method of converting digital audio into an anologue signal. This has to comply with the NTSC and PAL video formats. The other option would be to increase the PCM data to a 24 byte sample. But 16 bit was again chosen for historical reasons and so they could get all of Beethovens 9th symphony on a single disc.

From what I can determine the real reason for changing from vinyl to record is that a record cost $2 to make and they could sell it for $20. A CD cost $1 to make and they could sell it for $40. Therefore an increase of profit per record to the record companies of 117%.

If you want to discuss this issue further, may I suggest creating a new thread. As to who am I, besides being the writer of the Quest system, a professional entertainer and an ex-radio announcer, I am also a physicist who is currently doing nuclear research for the University of Waikato. I always love to chat about basic physics.

Yawn…Mate, that is why you have an anti-aliasing filter (low pass) and oversampling DACs. These will create a perfectly sine shaped wave even at 20KHz :wink:
About aliasing: this is a non-issue in practice, unless you can freakishly hear very well on the range between 21.5 KHz and 23 KHz, where there is some remaining aliasing due to the filters used commonly.

Thats all I have to say.

This is a cut reply from a post of Alista’s in the General Forum:

[quote="Alista’]As to other matters

[quote=“Wendel”]Yawn…Mate, that is why you have an anti-aliasing filter (low pass) and oversampling DACs. These will create a perfectly sine shaped wave even at 20KHz :wink: [/quote]Even when they do not exist. They are only partial solutions and their basic flaws are so fundamental as to not require a mention. Sigh…

Lets get some LRP on DAT or DVD-Audio instead.[/quote]

This is a cut reply from a post of Alista’s in the General Forum:

[quote=“Alista”]As to other matters

[quote=“Wendel”]Yawn…Mate, that is why you have an anti-aliasing filter (low pass) and oversampling DACs. These will create a perfectly sine shaped wave even at 20KHz :wink: [/quote]Even when they do not exist. They are only partial solutions and their basic flaws are so fundamental as to not require a mention. Sigh…

Lets get some LRP on DAT or DVD-Audio instead.[/quote]

I side with digital.

I’m not qualified but I know a bit about sound and I can certainly hear. I think that the odd thing about this debate is that while the sides can’t agree that one sounds better than the other, they can both agree that vinyl sounds different to digital. WTF?

What do you guys think of laser stylus systems? I haven’t had the pleasure of hearing one but the theory seems sound to me.