Buying Larp-Specific Props as a Player

When it comes to props that perform a specific function in the rules of a larp, it’s currently common for the game organisers to buy/make those props and provide them to the players on an as-needed basis (e.g. some games provide currency props, others provide special ability cards). However, if the phys-rep can be bought/made by the players with ease, this is usually left to the players to invest in for themselves (e.g. larp weapons, spell packets, etc.).

The example of such purchasable props are padlocks I had designed and made for larp; which can be opened by a key, or can be “picked” by undoing three screws down one side of the padlock to release the bolt. The locks allow characters to seal containers or lock doors, as well as providing a physical representation for a Pick Locks skill (where the screwdrivers represent the lock picks).

Players purchasing such props would introduce the desired rules mechanic on a potentially wider scale than what the game’s budget would allow, and by doing so the buyers would also potentially free up a portion of the props budget to be spent on more or better props, or possibly reduce the attendance fee.

If you had to buy the phys-rep for a specific rules mechanic to be able to use that rules mechanic in a campaign larp, and the prop was of good quality and could be easily reused as a prop in other larps, would you be willing to buy said phys-rep in order to use that particular rules mechanic?

First off, I have to say that padlock sounds awesome.

To answer the question I’d say that it would depend a great deal on the cost involved. Some props like your lock sound awesome but for those lacking finances there is always another way that can be found to have those phys-rep props- be it beg, borrow or improvise something similar.

In order to play a thief, I bought (or could have made in some fashion) a set of medieval looking lockpicks. In order to use a sword, I bought one. In order to play a doctor, I brought along bandages and syringes and scissors. We’re all pretty used to providing our own equipment. I’m trying to get my head round exactly what you’re asking here.

Are you saying that in your larp, you simply cannot lock anything IC unless you buy one of these special locks? There would be no other way of physrepping locking an item? Or that these would be bought by the players but put in a general pool to be used by the GMs and crew?

[quote=“Shades”]First off, I have to say that padlock sounds awesome.

To answer the question I’d say that it would depend a great deal on the cost involved. Some props like your lock sound awesome but for those lacking finances there is always another way that can be found to have those phys-rep props- be it beg, borrow or improvise something similar.[/quote]
Glad you like the locks. There are currently three in existence and I’m hoping to commission some more from the person who made the first three.

The locks, at cost, are only about $30 each for materials and construction. So for this particular prop it might be anywhere upwards of $50 + shipping. However, we pay a lot more for a lot less in other larp props. For simpler props required by hypothetical rules system, it’s certainly true that improvisation and making your own is a common practice.

[quote=“theotherphoenix”]In order to play a thief, I bought (or could have made in some fashion) a set of medieval looking lockpicks. In order to use a sword, I bought one. In order to play a doctor, I brought along bandages and syringes and scissors. We’re all pretty used to providing our own equipment. I’m trying to get my head round exactly what you’re asking here.

Are you saying that in your larp, you simply cannot lock anything IC unless you buy one of these special locks? There would be no other way of physrepping locking an item? Or that these would be bought by the players but put in a general pool to be used by the GMs and crew?[/quote]
In this example, these special locks would be required to lock anything IC. The hypothetical props bought by the players would be the property of the players, just like the sword, the lockpicks, and the medical gear you mentioned.

As cool as the Larp lock props are, and they’re pretty cool, I wouldn’t want to HAVE to spend $50 to lock something in the game if a much cheaper option was available.

In this case you could use cheap combination locks for a few bucks each set to one of perhaps 10 numbers say 111, 222, 333 etc.

Then a person with the right skill could pick a lock by spending time checking the 10 combinations. Takes a small amount of time and represents picking the action.

If the only way to represent something was with a custom prop, and it wasn’t something I could make, I’d consider it depending on I guess if I thought it was good value, and if it could be reused in the future.

I really like your system, but i didn’t realise that it was so expensive to produce the locks. Is there a way of doing this system cheaper? They might not look quite as cool (I haven’t seen them) but they might still function, and therefore be more prolific in game. When buying lock picks for 33AR it came to me that Allan keys are great IC looking phys-reps, more so than Phillips or flat head screw drivers, I reckon basing lock around different sized allan screws would be cool.

Its nice when there aren’t monopolies needed to produce the item. Weapons are a good example. The figures I have in my head are ~$120 purchased or ~$60 for DIY weapons, and there are a wide variety of suppliers (though most are overseas). However, the prop itself typically gets several encounters of use at a LARP and can be quite pivotal for the character.

Locks have the potential to be quite important, but this requires a larp with significant things to steal and to avoid having stolen. Having very narrow requirements for what can constitute a padlock isn’t ideal, but having some general ones allows people to make their own. I like Bryn’s idea for locks. The one Prema and I are thinking of involves Allan keys and a hook-screw thing on a small piece of wood. Simply using rope ties is even cheaper than either of these options, and the complexity of the knot can represent the difficulty of unpicking the lock. Any of these options are ones I think could be sourced to the players, provided they were actually going to have a relatively prolific use in game.

Currency is another type of prop that I think can be outsourced to players, though from what I’ve noticed LARP economies typically end up with very odd dynamics.

Set dressing is an interesting one. Typically, people bunk in scout camps, meaning the GM’s have to a) pay for the accommodation and b) set dress it as needed. Requiring players to provide their own tent and local set dressing, and reducing the cost of the game accordingly, might be an interesting change, provided that people can source a temporary tent if they haven’t got the money to invest in this now. This sort of thing works well with weapons now because new people can source things from a large number of places, including borrowing them from the massive number of weapons our player base owns, get them from the NZLARPs weapons cash (e.g. as NPC’s), and plenty of places to purchase them from. Tents cost a lot more to both DIY and purchase, and weapons in our community started very much in the DIY fashion, from which our current critical mass grew from. If we let people start with modern camping equipment and gradually move towards more aesthetically appealing tents (think the transition between ducktape and latex weapons), in 10 or 20 years we could have a community with enough equipment to help new people, keep our costs per game down with lower venue fees, and allow us to game in venues that don’t provide scouting bunks. Moving to tents opens up the doors to having players set dressing their own little areas of the game area - like a costume for the venue.

I think everyone is a little too focused on the locks I mentioned. I used them as an example because they’re the only other concrete one, apart from those that already exist that I mentioned, that I currently have. However, not the one possible example as there are a few other game-specific props that I’m planning.

I agree with the point presented that any such props need to have enough versatility and quality to justify their cost. I realise the lock example is a poor one for versatility as it is not as universal a standard as, say, currency, or larp weapons.

Nope.

I’m happy to volunteer to make/provide props to the game as a whole, but I wouldn’t want to be expected to do so just to use an ability.

Like Kara, I’m happy to provide phys reps of the tools of my trade, but it’s a bit of an ask to expect players to also source the items they need to interact with.

Especially if you had satandards about quality/professionalism/etc…

It’s a difficult ask. Game budgets include props and people are happy to contribute to game props in this fashion. Player’s kind of expect however that props are purchased in a best value for effect kind of way.

Which would put me at the point of purchasing cheap ass locks which I know people could pick. As in value store locks which can be picked with a hairpin and patience.

To use the example by Nick, the OP.

If the GM team were to lock something, they would provide the lock & I the picks to un-lock it.
Should I wish to lock something, with the locks as per the mechanic, then I’d produce the lock, in line with the rules requirement, so if an NPC was tasked to get the “box” and open it, it would still be part of the game mechanics. So the NPC would need the skill,

[quote=“TazzyD”]To use the example by Nick, the OP.

If the GM team were to lock something, they would provide the lock & I the picks to un-lock it.
Should I wish to lock something, with the locks as per the mechanic, then I’d produce the lock, in line with the rules requirement, so if an NPC was tasked to get the “box” and open it, it would still be part of the game mechanics. So the NPC would need the skill,[/quote]
This is the same is bringing your own spell packets or weapon. Gotta bring it to use it !

The only potential issue is this: If the cost of the prop is too high, then players will simply not engage. At $50 / lock, they won’t take the Lock Something skill. Or if that skill comes free with Lock Picking, then they just won’t bring any locks to the game. Part of the issue is that there is no guarantee that other games will implement this exact same mechanic. Cost is one reason that the mechanic won’t spread. And GM preference is another. Some mechanics naturally spread (e.g. reagent gathering), some are more a matter of taste (e.g. complicated calls), and when a player is faced with a $50 gamble, they may opt for risk adverseness.

I would like a quick clarification on what’s being asked.

Often a Larp has props, costume and gear specific to it. Examples include Jade Empire’s Dragon, Teonn’s Obelisk and Despair Fountain.
These will get use for plot devices. Are we wondering about players buying those?

If it is instead a Larp Specific Prop that is personal in size, say a Teonn Ritual Kit, a Jade Empire Tea Ceremony Set, a 33AR First Aid kit, then that is something that a player needs to provide as part of their own gear/costume/equipment.
Cost becomes an issue there. Some players can be clever and reuse parts of items, eg my satchel in Jade Empire is my Teonn Satchel, however it is often the case that something slightly different needs to be used.

Are you asking because you’d like to streamline the items used, i.e. make them all the same across the player base? This would be like saying to all Crucible players “to be a mage you must buy exactly this reagent pouch”.

Some clarification on the OP’s question is needed I think.

[quote=“Robza”]I would like a quick clarification on what’s being asked.

Often a Larp has props, costume and gear specific to it. Examples include Jade Empire’s Dragon, Teonn’s Obelisk and Despair Fountain.
These will get use for plot devices. Are we wondering about players buying those?

If it is instead a Larp Specific Prop that is personal in size, say a Teonn Ritual Kit, a Jade Empire Tea Ceremony Set, a 33AR First Aid kit, then that is something that a player needs to provide as part of their own gear/costume/equipment.
Cost becomes an issue there. Some players can be clever and reuse parts of items, eg my satchel in Jade Empire is my Teonn Satchel, however it is often the case that something slightly different needs to be used.

Are you asking because you’d like to streamline the items used, i.e. make them all the same across the player base? This would be like saying to all Crucible players “to be a mage you must buy exactly this reagent pouch”.

Some clarification on the OP’s question is needed I think.[/quote]

The props I’m talking about are personal in size, and have specific uses in the rules system as they act in place of their real world equivalents.

I am not attempting to streamline or unify the items being used to achieve the effect. In the scenario where a game sells such props, the intent would be to create a wider distribution of the mechanic within the game, and an easy way for players who don’t have the time, or energy, or resources, or knowledge, or expertise to create their own such props. An example of such props would be larp weapons (which, after years, have become more widely manufactured), or foam dart guns (e.g. nerf).

In which case the answer is simple: Yes, the players buy that gear which they need for the game.

As long as there is an option for players to be able to borrow these required items when they are poor student larpers or equivalent, I do not see the problem.