Bow / Arrows - LARP Safe

Hey peeps, Watching “The Brawl” at Chimera and the up and coming Teonn has me wanting to sort a LARP safe bow. The question is, could you foam a bow and then use it as a weapon, rather than just to shoot arrows?

You can get foam covered larp bows overseas but I don’t think they actually use them to whack people with. Its more to do with the style and look of the bow (so not modern looking) as well as making it safer to have in a fighting environment full of other foam implements.

And unless you’re think D&D fantastical warbow with blades on it, you wouldn’t ever whack someone with a bow. Or block with one either. SNAP. :open_mouth:

The problem with foaming a bow is that you may add extra tension to the bow taking it over a safe poundage. I would reccomend a maximum poundage of 30 for larp safe use (test this after all modifications have been made to the bow.)

Fighting with a bow is not overly practical due to the string potentially tangling with people not to mention coming lose and twanging somone in the eye never mind the damage caused to the actual bow.

Would something like this be acceptable, if equipped with suitable arrows?

Looks good.

Note that although it says 20lb draw weight, those arrows are short and with longer arrows the draw weight will increase.

I’d recommend getting a pair of vambraces if you’re planning on playing an archer, just so you don’t risk your forearms getting torn up.

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say you would add negligable added poundage to the bow by adding foam, assumeing you are talking regular foam used in larping and not those pre stressed nitrogen injected metal foams that have all those wierd physical properties

I agree, the “foam may add tension” argument doesn’t seem sound to me. Especially as the additional weight added to the limbs would probably degrade performance anyway.

But while I think a padded bow you could hit people with is A Cool Idea, some part of me thinks using a weapon where the core is under tension is inherently unsafe. Bows do un-funny things when the strings get accidentally dislodged.

I also think it’s likely that the amount of core you need to make a bow is more than you typically want for a melee weapon.

Common rules for arrow contruction:

  • the shaft and the tip should be connected in a way they couldn´t be seperated
  • the tip must have a bigger diameter than a human eyehole (more than 5cm)
  • the tip must be bofferd soft to the front and hard to the sides
  • the shaft should be made of a material that can´t break when you step on it, I use bamboo (1,5cm diameter)
  • the shaft should be made of a material that allows damages to be easily identified (no carbonfibre or wood)
  • NO METAL PARTS - Take off any metal arrow heads before you even start.

I agree, the “foam may add tension” argument doesn’t seem sound to me. Especially as the additional weight added to the limbs would probably degrade performance anyway.

But while I think a padded bow you could hit people with is A Cool Idea, some part of me thinks using a weapon where the core is under tension is inherently unsafe. Bows do un-funny things when the strings get accidentally dislodged.

I also think it’s likely that the amount of core you need to make a bow is more than you typically want for a melee weapon.[/quote]

Oh my bad, foaming, painting and latexing a bow wont increase the poundage… :unamused:

Yes because adding glue and an outer surface that you don’t want to rip when you fire the bow and thus has to be fairly tough wont in any way increase the poundage…

Leathering up high poundage bows so they look more realistic increases poundage by alot.

I didn’t say it would make it leathal I said it would increase the poundage… le sigh.

A more important point here is that fighting with a bow is just not a good idea - ever seen somone lose fingers to tension cable snapping? I have - its awesome fun!

That’s contrary to my experience. I’ve made a half dozen crossbows with fiberglass prods (bows). I wrapped them all in leather to disguise the fiberglass and measured draw weights before and after wrapping them (the SCA is very strict about draw weight on bows and crossbows). Wrapping the bows in leather made no difference to draw weight but it did make the bows shoot slower. If you were to glue specific types of rawhide on the back of the bow and knew what you were doing, you might be able to increase the poundage, but I really don’t think this is going to happen by accident.

Adding mass to the limbs of a bow doesn’t affect draw weight, but it does make the bow less effective. This is because, as well as having to throw the weight of the arrow, the bow also has to move the mass in its own limbs.

[quote=“Xcerus”]Oh my bad, foaming, painting and latexing a bow wont increase the poundage… :unamused:

Yes because adding glue and an outer surface that you don’t want to rip when you fire the bow and thus has to be fairly tough wont in any way increase the poundage…[/quote]

Oh no I might I agree, I said negligable increase not none. Like the way that wearing heavy gloves or vambraces will make your strikes harder with a boffer weapon.

Also I think your mistaking toughness and strength.

Foams and fabrics are tough, glass and concrete are strong. One absorbs alot of energy before total failure (like rubbers and foam), One is resistant to deformation (ie takes alot of force to deform but also tries to spring back with alot as long as it has yet to fail). Plastic, alot of steels and fiberglass are both strong and tough, they resist deformation and can be deformed alot before total failure and so make good strong springs (which is what a bow is - a leaf spring with a cord attached). But foam doesn’t resist deformation that well when loaded and doesn’t realy “push back” with that much strength per unit of deformation, hence why we use it in boffer weapons it absorbs alot of energy of the hit by squishing up but doesn’t push back on impact point.

Foaming, painting and latexing (as long as you dont stupidly over do the latex half an inch thick or something) will not add alot to the power of the bow.

Thus endth the lesson.

any incorrect negative comments you two would like to throw at my arrow advice as well?

Ok lets just do this then…im not going to be negitive…lets get scientific.

Simply supported beam with a central load…round cross section…by laws of supisition the force provided by the foam is…

F=Deflection48E*I/(L^3)
I=Pi(D^4)/64

Assuming the bow is 1.2m long and is surrounded in 1.5 inches (D=Approximately 6cm) of foam and a draw of - we’ll say - 1 meter in length and that the deflection of the tips is half of the draw length. Using a value for young’s modulus of 0.1 gigapascal for EVA foam (an higher than average value for foams). It will add 0.2 pounds of draw. Which is less than a 1% increase in poundage.

As I said Negligable.

Point in case:

28.5lb bow made larpsafe with a quick release catch so that the bowstring can be released and removed in under 5 seconds larp safed:

3" of foam applied - made to look much like a warbow from AVATAR including warblades which were the primary attack point on the weapon.

Latexed and painted to look more authentic the final bow strength came to 32.5 lb

So no - over all not a drastic increase in poundage (for 32’’ draw) the problem has been resolved by using shorter length arrows to give a lower draw however he never lends it out. I believe he currently uses a draw of around 26" to keep it safe.

I get a little frustrated when you guys don’t listen.

30lb limitis the law in the uk.

We don’t have one here so its pritty irrelevant.

I’m a little dubious over your case there. 4 pound increase?

From foam and latex?
How thick did he latex it?
I’m not doubting that his modified bow had a higher poundage. But i think theres more too that than the fact of adding foam.

Its not that we didn’t listen its that you never brought up these facts about actual cases at all, you just got all mocky and sardonic without giving anything to back up your argument and without evidence we were highly dubious of your claims that in the past (the aluminium core one for instance) have been made with only “Well thats how it was back in the UK…” presented to back it up.

I am still highly dubious about the added poundage from foam.

Sounds AMAZING!!! Any chance you could post some pictures? A link?

Poundage and draw and all those things aside (none of which I understand in the slightest)… I’d have to agree with the people on this thread who’ve said that meleeing with a weapon containing a wire/string under severe tension sounds like a Very Bad Idea™.

I like my eyes and my fingers where they are, ta.

Make a fake one without tension if you really like the idea of hitting people with a bow rather than using it for it’s intended purpose.

[quote=“theotherphoenix”]Poundage and draw and all those things aside (none of which I understand in the slightest)… I’d have to agree with the people on this thread who’ve said that meleeing with a weapon containing a wire/string under severe tension sounds like a Very Bad Idea™.

I like my eyes and my fingers where they are, ta.

Make a fake one without tension if you really like the idea of hitting people with a bow rather than using it for it’s intended purpose.[/quote]

I will try and find a picture - just glanced through facebook and his account has gone. Will pester some friends.

To go back to the original question…

My answer would be: While you could foam a bow and use it as a weapon, it would be inadvisable for several reasons.

  • The string would get in the way of melee, and there is the possibility of it hooking weapons and flailing them around (unsafe, even if it would look cool 8) )
  • The core of the weapon - the fibreglass/wood/carbonfibre/laminate - would be under constant tension. Not only does this increase the likelihood of the core snapping, it increases the stress put on the weapon, increasing things like hairline cracks, making it unreliable and unsafe. A bow snapping when you draw it is just not cool. I seem to remember a movie (not sure which, possibly LotR) where they used the bow as a weapon, and apparently they had several crack during various takes of just one fight scene.
  • Arrows on the string. If you’re attacked when you have an arrow on the string (paranoia dictates that you should - Murphy’s Law dictates that you will), your most immediate reaction will be to hit them with the bow. I’m guilty of doing this with an unfoamed bow. Then not only do you have the bow flailing around, you have an arrow, which is very unsafe - arrows are snappable, and the nock end is unfoamed and distinctly unsafe.
  • Efficiency. A bow is not the most ideal melee weapon. There’s a reason the average longbowman carried a sword and dagger too. :slight_smile:

If you want to foam up the bow to make it look awesome, sure, go for it! But using it in melee probably wouldn’t be wisest. End call, of course, would be the GMs of the game in question.