An issue with the rules or a leap of faith?

Community Larp discussion
#1

Banker - Twiszle Stick Mc Gold Earz enters the game.

Race: Elf

Skills:
Noble 6xp
Wealth 4xp
Surpluss X 5 = 5xp

(15xp spent)

Starting gold:
100
50 (elf)
50 (wealth)
100 (noble)
50 (10 per surpluss)

350g Starting

“O no” says Mc Gold Ears. “A band of players who happend to be my real life friends! Woe is me for I am about to be dead!”

  • 350g to my mates.

New Character created to replace dead elf.

Take what skills you want. Meet your mates in character or rinse and repeat…

Unfortunatly this is why being able to take currency skills in games can be seriously abused…

#2

See part of me likes to think there are enough like-minded good role-players out there that this kind of munchkining isn’t even an issue because everybody knows how unpopular/disliked they’d be if they attempted to pull this s**t. Also, GM’s generally have a way of smiting someone who pulls this type of stunt (and you don’t ever want to invoke the GM smiting).

The other part of me reckons you can deal with this type of thing by including a “Don’t be a power-gamer/rules-lawyering egg otherwise nobody will want to play with you.” bit in the rule book. TBH it’s pretty much ingrained in the culture anyways (which I’m very happy about).

Just my 2 cents.

#3

Y’know, I think the GMs would spot something like that happening pretty quickly and do something about it.

#4

Hi, I’d like to point out to any potential / new comers that Xcerus and AbCcCoxDsEHSoeVVa seem to have the reputation of being players at the “rules lawyers” end of the spectrum. That the majority of LARPers are players who enjoy roleplaying (which is not to imply that those 2 players don’t) and use the the rules as a starting point of getting an interesting character with which to have interesting interactions with other characters/ NPCs.

Based on my experience with the Wolfgang campaign that ended this year, which I think Teonn is following in style-wise, the rules don’t actually seem to matter much when you’re out there in the field of play. The characterisation matter much more than whether everyone is being created equal.

That’s just my opinion of course, so I apologise for the thread-jack, just didn’t want all the new people from Chimera getting the wrong impression.

#5

[quote=“Hannah”]Hi, I’d like to point out to any potential / new comers that Xcerus and AbCcCoxDsEHSoeVVa seem to have the reputation of being players at the “rules lawyers” end of the spectrum. That the majority of LARPers are players who enjoy roleplaying (which is not to imply that those 2 players don’t) and use the the rules as a starting point of getting an interesting character with which to have interesting interactions with other characters/ NPCs.

Based on my experience with the Wolfgang campaign that ended this year, which I think Teonn is following in style-wise, the rules don’t actually seem to matter much when you’re out there in the field of play. The characterisation matter much more than whether everyone is being created equal.

That’s just my opinion of course, so I apologise for the thread-jack, just didn’t want all the new people from Chimera getting the wrong impression.[/quote]

I prefer to call myself a rules inquisitor…

I tend not to let things that sound a little odd get over looked. I would also like to point out Hannah that you have not been larping as long as other members of the forum.

I have already submitted a character to the gm’s. I have had this concept pritty much since teonn announced orks would be a playable race.

To all new larpers I would encourage you not to listen to generalisations about ‘rules lawyers being bad role players’ because I won best role player at last years chimera for the big larp (the 60 person larp) as captain hook.

I am sick and tired of being type cast as the ‘dick’ character and perhaps to some extent I have transfered that across onto diatribe and become more of a dick for it as thats what people seem to expect from me these days.

I am sure many of you remember what it was like to role play with me when I first entered the country 2 years ago - before people started abusing my size to make me the big cock at games.

#6

Hey! Some of my best friends are tall! You take that back! :stuck_out_tongue:

I think Hannah’s comment was pretty fair, though - you and AbCcCoxDsEHSoeVVa spend a lot of time thinking about the edges of the rules, and you’re both good at spotting loopholes. It’s just that most of the people at Teonn probably won’t be, and they’re less vocal in the rules discussions, so it’s worth commenting on so the new people don’t get scared off by thinking that the game will be really complicated and adversarial about the rules. (Which I hope it won’t be.)

I heard you went to a family event last weekend - how did it go?

#7

Okay, noted. :slight_smile:

#8

[quote=“Stephanie”]Hey! Some of my best friends are tall! You take that back! :stuck_out_tongue:

I think Hannah’s comment was pretty fair, though - you and AbCcCoxDsEHSoeVVa spend a lot of time thinking about the edges of the rules, and you’re both good at spotting loopholes. It’s just that most of the people at Teonn probably won’t be, and they’re less vocal in the rules discussions, so it’s worth commenting on so the new people don’t get scared off by thinking that the game will be really complicated and adversarial about the rules. (Which I hope it won’t be.)

I heard you went to a family event last weekend - how did it go?[/quote]

Family event was a no go - said person is still alive. I didn’t want to arrange to go to chimera and then have to pull out at the last moment leaving people in the lurch without characters to play (for example a key character missing from structured larps can really throw people off as they could potentially be missing a large part of their plot.)

Having said that - family memeber is very unwell but now so am I with a fantastic lung infection that nearly saw me in hospital this morning and on oxygen on wednesday.

So things are going well…

In regards to the rules - Dylan (AbCcCoxDsEHSoeVVa) pointed out somthing of note to me:
There are two binary states for rules adhiration -
1: Abide by the rules

2: Don’t

However it appears that there are quite a number of people who feel that abiding by either of these two states is infact a henious act which deserves title and placement in larp society varying from rules lawyer to that cheating c*nt…

So people are expected to float somwhere in the middle and presume rules are there as a guide line…

If that is the case then why are people like Ryan Paddy not running more larps that utilise the lack of rules.

As a final note on this I would like to point out I am a massive fan of the larping rule number 7 which states:

“Do not take the piss”

Following this rule would mean not doing the above (somthing which i tend not to do… I usually make fairly balanced characters for larps (nb: not lrps - pen and paper / cards and pockets have massive rules books that are designed to be used. I am more than happy to apply crazy abilities in these situations.)

A subclause of this is rule 7a

“Unless its funny”

So for example you could do the above so many times that the ground of indivisuals taking your gold have so much of it they have to transport it in buckets or the gm’s make them sew those tiny bells onto their costumes so they jingle every where they go so people know to either A: mug them or B: seriously overcharge them.

#9

I’m sorry, I’d thought you were going to a wedding or something. My apologies.

#10

[quote=“Xcerus”][

In regards to the rules - Dylan (AbCcCoxDsEHSoeVVa) pointed out somthing of note to me:
There are two binary states for rules adhiration -
1: Abide by the rules

2: Don’t

However it appears that there are quite a number of people who feel that abiding by either of these two states is infact a henious act which deserves title and placement in larp society varying from rules lawyer to that cheating
[/quote]

Seriously??

Option 3. Find a new interpretation or loophole or eventuality the GM didn’t think of, of a particular rule that does not have ironclad description and attempt to milk it for all its worth, to the benefit of their character. While technically this sates the requirement of 1, it certainly highlights the reason why people are called rules lawyers. Some other rules lawyers have also been known to brag that they are out to “break” a game system as a primary objective of their character.

Note: To the credit of rules lawyers, engage one when writing a game system. Get them to submit their best character efforts. There you will find you game system flaws.

#11

I think this is a case where your favourite “do not take the piss” unwritten rule is the answer.

For me, the way to approach rules is to follow them (option 1), but also to try to absorb the spirit of the game and follow that too. That’s what not taking the piss means, it means understanding the social contract of the game and trying to stay in keeping with it as well as the written rules.

It’s best if the rules minimise the potential to be cracked, especially for large games where players are more likely to take the piss without detection. So I see why you’re raising this loophole, totally.

But in the end most rule sets have some loopholes. Especially larp economies, they’re tragically hard to manage. With the right player culture, players will look at loopholes like this and go “I’d be a dick to use that loophole, it’s totally gaming the system.” Luckily, as Malu said, I think we have that sort of culture.

#12

I really can’t see that this conversation has added anything of value to the larp universe. Was it at all necessary?

#13

No, guilty as charged.

#14

Because roleplaying is a competition, obviously. I’m looking forward to meeting you and a whole bunch of other people I’ve not met from Auckland at Teonn, but I don’t think that mentioning this over and over is going to win the affection of any newbies passing by the forums.

How about you let your play do the talking come November?

#15

Actually, I can see the value of Adam’s observation.

He’s identified an edge condition in an as-yet untested aspect of the intended game system. Now the GMs know that it is there, and can respond accordingly if someone exploits it.

Thus far, Adam has NOT given one iota of a suggestion that he intends to exploit this edge condition (he’s convincingly played the Orc in every instance of the RP threads !), and I find it tiresome that he is being criticised (both explicitly and implicitly) for simply pointing out a potentially exploitable aspect of the game system.

As Ryan says, larp economies are difficult to manage, so identifying potential economy exploits is actually making the game better, not worse.

The irony, of course, is that the system itself actively encourages munchkinning by means of the Paths. Is anybody seriously considering taking a non-Path character ?

#16

Mike about 20% are considering no path according to the poll:

Don’t know how accurate that’ll end up. Not very I expect.

And you might be right that Adam’s POV has been attacked, because it is Adam. But I think he brings it on himself by the way he phrases his posts. He plays the man, not the ball and he pretty much makes every type of fallacious argument it’s possible to make.

#17

[quote=“Derek”]Mike about 20% are considering no path according to the poll:

[What paths are people taking?)

Don’t know how accurate that’ll end up. Not very I expect.

And you might be right that Adam’s POV has been attacked, because it is Adam. But I think he brings it on himself by the way he phrases his posts. He plays the man, not the ball and he pretty much makes every type of fallacious argument it’s possible to make.[/quote]
19% now - I changed my vote. Origionally I had intended not to take a path however that was before i was basically nominated to be the orks warboss. So Now I have taken the Noble path. - Vote changed to represent this.

Remind me to cease pointing out flaws in other peoples rules systems the way that both Ryan and Derik did with so much gusto over the star wars larp rules…

Obviously its only ok to be a rude fucker if you have been living in new zealand longer than I have.

#18

Dude, has it ever occurred to you that being inflammatory is unhelpful, and perhaps enables others to justify holding a jaundiced view towards your posts ?

No argument from me around Adam’s sometimes ill-advised choices for the wording of his posts (see above), but if the problem is “playing the man”, then the fewer who do it, the better. Which is why I chimed in.

#19

Adam, I made a complaint. The forum has a rule against personal insults, and “rude fuckers” is clearly a personal insult. Moreover, this attack followed previous insults on Diatribe (against me, as it happens), of “cunt” and “stupid prick” that you’d already received warnings about.

I don’t much care what you say about me, but I do strongly object to personal insults on Diatribe, it’s totally the opposite of what this community is about.

I imagine Derek will comment here to give the reason for the temporary block you’ve received, so that others know what is and isn’t acceptable.

EDIT: this post (and those below) are in response to Adam posting under an alternative account to dispute his 1-month forum ban, and to accuse others of personal attacks on him. That alternative account has been deleted by the moderator, and the posts it made have been deleted with it. Just wanted to clear up any confusion about what these posts are responding to.

#20

Dude. If you feel somebody’s making a PA against you in a post, use the little red exclamation mark and report it. That’s what it’s there for.