LRP vs LARP

Community Larp discussion
#21

I did a quick survey of players down here that have played “Boffer LRP” and Symbolic action LARP. I asked three players, being all I could lay my hands on in my normal everyday travels. I will ask more as they appear.

I presented them with the statement

“There is no major difference between playing a Boffer LRP and a Symboloic LARP”

In all three cases their first reaction was a look of confusion as they tried to decide whether I was joking or not, this was followed by a look of “What the… You are serious aren’t you?”, which was finally succeeded by that look of wary compassion that people give to insane people. The mildest expression of any of the three was “Bullshit!” I won’t repeat what the others said. They all then independantly asked if the people who posed this statement have ever played Live Role Play to which I could not answer.

So the opinion of all the people that I have talked to down here is that there is a major difference based on whether you use a boffer system or a symbolic system. And the they all were concerned if there been a Live Role Play game in Auckland recently.

Nobody is saying that one style is better than the other, only they are different.

Question why is it that people assume that it is only combat that is resolved by ones own actions? There are other skills you really have to do.

#22

I asked more people for their reaction to the statement about no difference between Boffer and Symbolic games. I have the same reaction everytime, very funny yet at the sametime sad.

Thanks to all the people that have taken part in this and the Generations discussion. Obviously we are talking apples and bananas. It seems our humble little game doesn’t seem to really fit into the current Auckland understanding of the term LRP or LARP so in future I think we will call ourselves ‘Fantasy Recreation’.

I had better get back to writing and adventuring. We’ll keep you posted of important dates.

Happy adventures.

#23

You’re fighting with a straw man, Alista.

My point isn’t that live/simulated resolution and symbolic resolution are the same. That’s the straw man.

My point is that they are just two different means of resolving challenge within a single type of endeavour - LRP/LARP. My further point was that most LARP/LRP events blend both live resolution and symbolic resolution together. And finally, that it could be argued that hitting someone with a foam sword symbolises hitting them with a real sword. My point is that these lines are much more blurry that they might appear at first glance.

On a separate note, LRP and LARP are not used to mean different things by the vast majority of people doing them. I don’t see the point in pushing that boat, it’s not going anywhere. Apart from the fact that your usage is totally at odds with international usage, the definitions you’re giving don’t make any sense under those names. Why would adding the word “Action” make something symbolic resolution?

In conclusion, I can’t see any point in this “us and them” mentality of saying that two different varieties of LRP/LARP are actually entirely different activities. They’re just variations on a theme. I can see a point in being able to describe the differences within LRP/LARP, so that you can tell people what sort of experience to expect at a given event.

#24

They’re still both fruit :slight_smile: as Mr Miagi says “Different…but the same”

And sure if you say “There is no major difference between playing a Boffer LRP and a Symboloic LARP” sure you’ll get funny looks, no surprise there…like if i say “There is no major difference between bicyles and motorbikes” I’ll get the same reaction…

But they SHARE many features and on the base level of function they are still “single person transit land-transport vehicles with 2 wheels”…they fulfil the same basic function…single man transport…

I agree there is a HUGE differance between “Boffer” and “Sim Combat”…but they are still both LARPs…I mean LARP is just a term for… (as i said earlier)

Call it a “LARP”. Call it a “LRP”. Call it “Widegaming”. Call it (as the swedish do) “Lajv”. Doesn’t matter what people call it as long as they play it and enjoy.

#25

On reflection I think the main difference between “Boffer” Style and “Symbolic” is philosophical. In what we are now calling Fantasy Recreation the point is to try and live the genre. In symbolic systems it is to pretend to live the genre.

E.g. A transcript of the cave module mentioned earlier. (Actions are in upper case as per standard script writing)

Boffer.

THE PARTY WALKS INTO A SMALL CHAMBER. THEY WALK PAST AN UNSEEN WIGHT WHO WAITS FOR HALF THE PARTY TO WALK PAST BEFORE ATTACKING THE MAGE.
WIGHT : Aaargggghhhh!!!
MAGE : (SCREAMS) Get it off me, get it off me.
FIGHTER : Get out of my way.
MAGE : Help
SCOUT : What the ?
CLERIC : You have a shield, get up there.
WIGHT : Aaargh!
WIGHT SEES GAP IN THE FIGHTER SCREEN AND DUCKS OUT A CORRIDOR.
FIGHTER : Where did it get to? Can anyone see it?
CLERIC : Any one hurt.
MAGE : Help.
SCOUT : Let’s just stay here a while. MAybe it willleave us alone.

Symbolic Version
THE PARTY WALK INTO A CHAMBER, THEY SEE THE WIGHT LEANING AGAINST THE WALL BUT HE IS OBVISCATING SO THEY PRETEND TO IGNORE. BY SOME STRANGE CHANCE THE FIGHTERS ALWAYS HAPPEN TO BETWEEN THE WIGHT AND THE MAGES.
WIGHT : I attack you.
FIGHTER : I have Celerity so I hit first.
WIGHT : I too have Celerity.
FIGHTER : Mine is level two
THE WIGHT WINS PAPER/SCISSORS/ROCK
WIGHT : I attack you.
WIGHT LOSES PAPER SCISSORS ROCK
SCOUT: My turn to attack You.
THE WIGHT IS HIT AND TRIES TO RUN AWAY.
WIGHT : I flee
FIGHTER : I try to hit you before you go
and so on.

Can you spot the difference ?

#26

Wow, the figher in that scenario is a horrible roleplayer. Most of the people I play with in OWBN would never be such assholes. Guess what, bad roleplayers can be in any style of game.

Also, its Obfuscate not Obviscate.

#27

That scenario was too heavily loaded, Alista. I think you’re pushing your agenda too strongly and it doesn’t appear balanced at all.

About that “there is no difference” thing –
Nobody said there was no difference. They said they shouldn’t be called different things. Just because Cameron thinks both styles (I don’t see them as being that binary, but whatever) should be called LARP doesn’t mean he thinks there is “no difference between”.

I totally disagree with the categorisation of larps into “symbolic” and “boffer”. I think that all larps are symbolic and that’s why they’re larps. Boffer weapons aren’t some magical binary device that makes them a whole different thing.

Boffers are just a symbol for swords/shields etc. Like it or not. To be perfectly honest I think that boffer weapons are actually a relative shit physrep for real swords and they depend on extremely good role-playing.

However, I sense a continuum here. At one end we have highly symbolic actions (a la tabletop) and at the other we have fully physrep’d scenes where everything is what it seems. Probably in the latter version you never kill anything :wink:

Of course, this continuum exists alongside a great number of other continuums (linear/freeform, immersive/not, plotty/empty etc), it’s not the only decider.

So: no larps are identicle but they’re all called larps.

#28

Here’s some more transcripts. I’ve used my theory of a “continuum” here and given them approximate scores along certain measurements.

80% Linear 80% physrep’d larp, 90% immersive, 20% plot. The group is exploring a cave.

THE PARTY WALKS INTO A SMALL CHAMBER. THEY WALK PAST AN UNSEEN WIGHT WHO WAITS FOR HALF THE PARTY TO WALK PAST BEFORE ATTACKING THE MAGE.
WIGHT : Aaargggghhhh!!!
MAGE : (SCREAMS) Get it off me, get it off me.
FIGHTER : Get out of my way.
MAGE : Help
SCOUT : What the ?
CLERIC : You have a shield, get up there.
WIGHT : Aaargh!
WIGHT SEES GAP IN THE FIGHTER SCREEN AND DUCKS OUT A CORRIDOR.
FIGHTER : Where did it get to? Can anyone see it?
CLERIC : Any one hurt.
MAGE : Help.
SCOUT : Let’s just stay here a while. Maybe it will leave us alone.

80% freeform, 80% symbolic larp, 80% immersive, 40% plot. The group is not exploring a cave (that would be silly in this kind of larp!), they’re secret agents and playing aboard a real life passenger train.

JACK sees WOMAN IN RED by DOOR TO SMOKING DECK
JACK: Got a light?
WOMAN IN RED: Only the one that guides me.
JACK: Would that be liberty or selfishness?
WOMAN IN RED: Hope.
(That’s the password. Jack now knows the woman is JILL)
JILL: Hand it over.
JACK: First the money.
JILL MAKES EYE CONTACT WITH CHRIS, A “PASSENGER” WHO APPEARS TO BE TAKING TOO MUCH INTEREST IN THEIR CONVERSATION
JILL: Let’s take this where he can’t hear.
JACK GLANCES AT CHRIS AS THEY GO TO THE SMOKING DECK
JILL: There’s an internet cafe at the next stop. I’ll wire you the money there.
JACK: Don’t try anything funny. I’ve got boys at the next stop.
JACK HANDS JILL A PIECE OF PAPER THAT SAYS "ELIPSIS"
JILL GIVES JACK A GENTLE SWIPE
JILL: I punch you in the face and push you over there (points to railing)
JACK: fuck. Uh, can’t do anything here huh.
JACK SITS DOWN BY RAILING
JILL: I’m putting handcuffs on here. You’re under arrest. You have the right to remain…
CHRIS BURST THROUGH THE DOORS POINTING AT JILL’S HEAD
CHRIS: Bang.
CHRIS LOOKS AT JACK.
CHRIS: Silent. Bang.

#29

Heres another Example:

A poor under-fed pig farmer (played by a SCA re-enactor new to larp armed only with a foam spade) and an well-to-do vetren ex-gladiator come professional soldier (played by an experianced roleplayer and larper who may have asthma or something) get into a argument and they agree to duel (cause the soldier is a soldier who doesn’t know the other players history of SCA and the farmer is being played by a player confident of his abilities)…

Boffer
Farmer’s player probably wins just because he is experienced at fighting knows how to block etc and the roleplayer gets owned (unless the soldier gets lucky) = A well off trained soldier with a sword getting poinked to death by a malnutritioned peasent with a spade…But the fight does look alot better.

Symbolic
The Farmer character more than likely gets his arse handed to him by the highly trained conditioned soldier who’s life till now has revolved around not getting poinked to death (unless the farmer gets lucky) = The more likely event of the character who is trained in combat (For instance: has more traits in Melee or Potence 2 or Celerity or the Strong trait ETC) laying the beat down…but the fight may not be as dramatic.

“Players Abilities of what they can do” Vs “Character Abilities of what they can do”

Can YOU spot the difference?

But I agree there is a deffinate break in immersion with Sim’ Combat…but then again Boffer styles arn’t without its down sides too

Plus poor roleplaying can ruin any game…

The 80 year old cripple character that suddenly forgets his gammy leg.
The character that is standing in the right place or stops talking about stuff even though he cant see the invisible guy (to use your invisible man case)

But thats a case for the thread on “Cheating”