[quote=“IdiotSavant”]A slight problem with lack of security. having a shed in someone’s yard means you know if its been broken into. An unmonitored offsite, you could have no idea until the next time someone needs something for a game.[/quote]Possibly, but these kind of sites aren’t exactly without people being around. Surely the scouts (or whoever) would report a break in, wouldn’t they?
If they noticed, then I would expect that they would at least inform us so we could take it to the police. But I would say that a scout camp has a higher objective risk to theft than, say, an ordinary street. I can name two occasions at Mordavia where items were stolen while we playing, and the reason Puketane has those awesome gates is a response to a daytime theft.
To some extent, the choice between truck and shed is a tradeoff of risk, and there will be varying assessments of what the risks are. I’m comfortable that we can mitigate the risk of the truck being stolen, and what I really like about the truck is it neatly deals with the load in / load out issue associated with large games. It is a lot of effort, and if we can avoid it, then that’s great.
Also, I delivered the trailer to Gaffy last night. The whole trip took me over an hour, and I’ll have to take the trailer back to Mum’s again on Sunday. I’d be very happy to reduce the frequency of the trailer pickups/dropoffs. Sure, anyone could do this, but it seems par for the course for it to fall to me to do pickup/dropoff the trailer.
And then there’s the shed. It was a mission to put up, it will be a mission to pull down and a mission to put back up, and if we ever move it again, another two missions. Putting it up will take a day, pulling it down probably half as long. So, on a personal level, the shed represents significant chunks of my time, right at the busy end of the year.
I was Gear Officer for 3 years, during which I stored the gear in my shed. I also personally paid for the materials for the trailer park at my Mum’s, and was one of the volunteers who created the trailer park and also put up the shed. I know how much effort is involved in a shed-based storage solution, and I think the truck is vastly better.
[quote=“Mike Curtis”]Also, I delivered the trailer to Gaffy last night. The whole trip took me over an hour, and I’ll have to take the trailer back to Mum’s again on Sunday. I’d be very happy to reduce the frequency of the trailer pickups/dropoffs. Sure, anyone could do this, but it seems par for the course for it to fall to me to do pickup/dropoff the trailer.
And then there’s the shed. It was a mission to put up, it will be a mission to pull down and a mission to put back up, and if we ever move it again, another two missions. Putting it up will take a day, pulling it down probably half as long. So, on a personal level, the shed represents significant chunks of my time, right at the busy end of the year.
I was Gear Officer for 3 years, during which I stored the gear in my shed. I also personally paid for the materials for the trailer park at my Mum’s, and was one of the volunteers who created the trailer park and also put up the shed. I know how much effort is involved in a shed-based storage solution, and I think the truck is vastly better. [/quote]
I sympathise with a lot of Mike says here. One of the major dilemnas I face with every single weekend event I run (and in the past few years, I’ve run a minimum of three a year) is begging someone to tow the trailer to and from the venue. The trailer is a behemoth that practically requires a tank to move when full, and there’s about three cars in the community that can move it - Mike’s, Matt Moore’s dad’s and Gaffy’s dad’s. This community owes a lot to these three guys, two of whom aren’t even larpers, for hauling our stuff to and form places for the last three years. I’ve been massively stressed this week, and a good 80% of that Wolfgang stress has been from arranging the trailer.
While I haven’t been Gear Officer, like Mike, I was one of the people who helped build the trailer park and the shed, and am around for most of pack-ins and pack-outs of the trailer. So, like, Mike, I’m all for the truck because it solves several massive, time and effort consuming problems. I know it’s got drawbacks, and I know it has costs associated with it, but I think that it’ll solve our gear/storage/transport problems for at least 5 years to come.
Does anyone have a family member or friend with land space to spare? Perhaps on a lifestyle block, or in an industrial yard?
If we could cheaply rent some space like that for parking a truck on, for less than say $1000 per year, then the truck may be a practical medium-term solution.
The only commercial parking I’ve found that might take a truck is this, which seems to cost about $1500 per year (inc GST) for storing RVs, which might be a similar size to the truck.
I wouldn’t say that a truck is a long-term solution. If Auckland wants to continue to grow and diversify its equipment, it will eventually need more space than a truck. And we need that space to also accomodate a workshop area with power and lighting, so we can maintain the gear where it’s stored. There are places like that available to lease but unfortunately such properties do not come cheaply. The ideal would be a crappy (thus cheap) building down a right-of-way (which also cheapens it) in an industrial area, like this. Unfortunately, most properties of that sort don’t list their price. But judging by other listings like this one, it’s probably in the thousands per year. Some such properties would have space for the trailer, and/or a truck. I don’t think we have the income to justify something like that now, but I think that’s the sort of gear facility we’ll eventually need and it’s worth keeping that long-term future in mind when we’re making short and medium-term plans.
The truck idea certainly seems to be popular, but I’m wondering if anyone has considered the feasibility of actually getting a truck into some of the locations we use. Some of those scout camps are up long driveways, with windy roads and hills to contend with. I don’t know much about trucks, and I’ve only been to a couple of our regular locations, but is there going to be a problem getting a truck into some of these places?
I’m assuming we’re looking at something between an SUV and an 8-wheeler…
Truck idea looks great. And if vital bits can be temporarily removed to make it undrivable as anti-theft protection, then even better.
On what Daphne said - is truck drivable, let’s say, to Huia Lodge? If yes then it is probably drivable everywhere.
I believe it should be okay. Trust me, the trailer isn’t exactly an easy to manouvere vehicle either. When Tigger and I were taking it down the near vertical slope from Nikki’s house, I was certain it was going to tumble on top of us and we’d die a horrific death. If anything, I’m thinking a truck will be more stable.
Basically, you need someone’s garage.
If you were in PN, you could have mine (I don’t bloody use it)
Yes, that’s bang on.
Gaffy, if you’re flat hunting can you try to find a place with an empty garage that you won’t need to use?
The society may be willing to rent the garage space from you, if it’s cheap enough. Like $500 a year or something.
Ideally, find a flat somewhere in Massey near where the trailer is stored.
Ta.
I agree with Ryan here, the truck is not going to fix everything long term - and worse than that possibly is the likelihood that it will mean a combination hassle of truck AND trailer - Mike’s very real and understandable woes are not going to disappear because if this, the trailer is going to be an omnipresent thorn unless we sell it in the face of getting this newer bigger one.
I say newer and bigger because that’s what it will be - while it will have it’s own power (unlike the trailer) these things are -not- easy to manoeuvre in the slightest. The point of accessibility is significant, if I’m reading the size of this particular truck correctly, Huia will be a nightmare, if not impossible. Note it is extra wide; for those that want to compare, it is as wide as the shed in Nikki’s back yard. Actually, that’s a good comparison - for good AND bad, this is the shed on wheels. The shed on wheels, towing a 'mare of a trailer
It was brought up earlier that it didn’t look big enough to hit 4.5 tonnes. It’s my understanding (feel free to correct me) that this applies to the gross laden weight, ie the weight when fully loaded. This thing was used to haul racecars, so I’d say that’s likely. After a quick poke around online, the few similar looking pictures - which were used for horse transports - reported a GLW of 5.9 tonnes. That’s an HT licence needed.
The issue of maintaining it hasn’t been fully covered yet either - COF-B is probably a couple of one or two hundred dollars worth every 6 months, plus yearly registration which will be the same. Plus, I’m assuming it’s diesel so we’re looking at road user charges as well as diesel consumption itself, which could be a hundred dollars or so per event - last time I had to do RUC, it was $96 for 1,000km block which might do us for a year, but it was the only increment I could buy and it expires every year. On top of that is insurance, again likely a few hundred dollars per annum. Maintenance, tyres, servicing… all more costs that need to be considered, and between them another few hundred dollars each year.
Looking back this does seem a bit negative, maybe it is, but it’s born from a string of dodgy car purchases that have cost me more than they needed to, so it’s the same scrutiny I’d give a vehicle purchase I was considering for myself. That, and noone seems to have brought the whole lot up. I’d like to see these figures if possible before everyone starts thinking this is a one-off $4k solution to the problem. I’d do it myself, but it’s not all available online. Take all the required costs and add them up - and even then, this is still only the bare minimum. What happens if we have a breakdown? What about inevitable repairs for COF? (it’s 23 years old, it WILL be falling apart). Panelbeating alone for any rust (again, 23 years old) is an instant $200 hit minimum. At the least, we’ll need to make sure we maintain a reserve fund for these sort of situations because if we can’t fix anything immediately, especially before an event, well, we’ll be right back at this very point.
On top of this, I’ve yet to see a good idea for where to park the thing - I certainly can’t think of any. It needs to be off-road, as local authorities will start ticketing anything parked in the same place for more than a month (even if it’s moved occasionally, they’ll get iffy about it being there ALL the time), and it needs to be somewhere it can be kept an eye on, preferably by someone in the community, and easily accessible for building/maintaining the gear itself. This brings up the lighting/space/workshop issue with an addition - we also lose the space once every 6 months when we have to empty it for the COF testing.
OK, let’s call it a medium term solution, then. The fact is, we don’t have a long term solution to a very real and immediate issue for NZ LARPS. Until we own some land, or have the income to pay commercial storage rates or a putative lease from a land-owning community organisation, I don’t see a solution to our current problem of what to do with our shedload of gear.
Nobody is putting their hand up with a new location for our shed, nobody is offering us storage for our gear.
Maybe so, we won’t know until we try. I would have thought that it would cope with the hills, and the drive is wide enough to back down. Overhanging trees is a different matter, and could be an issue. However, we will still have the trailer to use in these cases where the truck can’t go - I would expect that Steadfast Park in Piha may be one where the hill is perhaps too steep and long for the truck.
Googling around indicates that this truck will have a tare (unladed weight) of about 3 tonnes. While our gear is bulky, it doesn’t actually weigh that much, so I’d be surprised if it hit 1 tonne in total. That leaves 500kg headroom for expansion.
Assessing the tare is useful, and something the committee should do prior to purchase, in addition to getting the truck checked out. Bear in mind that the steel ramps will be removed, so the actual tare will be lower than what it is currently, with the ramps installed. Note that it does have a new COF, so it is likely to be in reasonable order.
Unless we get a benefactor who is prepared to store our gear or house our shed for free, we are looking at significant cash outlay in perpetuity. I’m comparing truck purchase and running costs to the the estimated $2500 p.a. for storage alone. Unless we change our current activities significantly, I don’t expect more than 5-6 weekend games a year where the truck will be used. Let’s assume and average of 150km round trip (this is very conservative). That’s still only 750km to 900km a year, hardly a massive wear on tyres etc. As for the cost of diesel, I have no problem with the cost of transport being factored into the cost of a game. It’s good to see St Wolfgangs offer petrol money for to tow the trailer, but this is the first time I have personally heard of compensation being given to the person who tows the trailer, usually there is an expectation that it will be gratis - this goes for all games, I’m not in any way singling out or criticising St Wolfgang’s.
Actually, my experience is that - for residential streets - councils don’t care at all about legally parked vehicles. We had an abandoned car outside our place for months and when I rang the council to do something about it, they said they would sticker it in a couple of weeks and then wait a month to see if the owner does anything. Proactive, they are not. I don’t see any reason not to park the truck on a residential street, say, near the Gear Officer’s abode. Also, we could simple approach businesses that have spare carparks until one says they would not mind us taking up 2 or 3 spaces. Parking is hardly a showstopper in the wider scheme of things.
Good point, however, we could time the COF check with Gear Maintenance days, or even with weekend games.
The problem we face is what to do with the gear in the short term. Unfortunately, the truck concept is the best option at present. Sure, it will have ongoing costs, but so will commercial storage solutions. IMO, the benefits of a truck outweigh the negatives, and I’m confident we can address any issues associated with owning a truck.
[quote=“Mike Curtis”]Googling around indicates that this truck will have a tare (unladed weight) of about 3 tonnes. While our gear is bulky, it doesn’t actually weigh that much, so I’d be surprised if it hit 1 tonne in total. That leaves 500kg headroom for expansion.
Assessing the tare is useful, and something the committee should do prior to purchase, in addition to getting the truck checked out. Bear in mind that the steel ramps will be removed, so the actual tare will be lower than what it is currently, with the ramps installed. Note that it does have a new COF, so it is likely to be in reasonable order. [/quote]
If I’m reading the rules for licenses correctly, they are not based on the unladen weight or on the actual laden weight. They are based on the hypothetical laden weight written on the rego of the vehicle. If a truck is registered as having a laden weight of 4500kg or more, it requires a Type 2 licence to drive even if it’s empty at the time.
That seems optimistic. This isn’t an abandoned car, it’s a truck that’s 2.2 meters wide and 2.1 meters high. Park it on a residential street for a month and I suspect more than one resident will complain to the council about the visual and physical obstruction. Less time if it was parked on a narrow street
I think the truck is a great lateral solution, and I don’t want to be down on it. But the costs and issues have to be assessed realistically. It’s an even bigger investment than the shed was, so we should only do it if fairly certain to work, be affordable, and last us for 5 years or so.
My biggest fear is that it might break down in the first couple of years and cost thousands to fix. That’s what I mean by unpredictable costs. There’s a reason vehicles of this age are so cheap, it’s because they can be so expensive to keep in working order.
OK, let’s call it a medium term solution, then. The fact is, we don’t have a long term solution to a very real and immediate issue for NZ LARPS. Until we own some land, or have the income to pay commercial storage rates or a putative lease from a land-owning community organisation, I don’t see a solution to our current problem of what to do with our shedload of gear.
Nobody is putting their hand up with a new location for our shed, nobody is offering us storage for our gear.[/quote]
No, but there are other immediate storage solutions being suggested that while pricier long-term, could be better short or medium term.
Maybe so, we won’t know until we try. I would have thought that it would cope with the hills, and the drive is wide enough to back down. Overhanging trees is a different matter, and could be an issue. However, we will still have the trailer to use in these cases where the truck can’t go - I would expect that Steadfast Park in Piha may be one where the hill is perhaps too steep and long for the truck.[/quote]
I’d rather we didn’t buy the thing on the grounds it may go everywhere we need. Trucks are hard to back into places, IMHO harder than trailers. The vibe I’m getting from this discussion is the trailer would be towed by the truck. Double trouble. Or, if as you suggest, we use the trailer because the truck won’t go there, then not only have we spent a lot of money on a truck we aren’t using for the express purpose we got it, but you still have the known hassles of getting the monstertrailer places it doesn’t like going.
Googling around indicates that this truck will have a tare (unladed weight) of about 3 tonnes. While our gear is bulky, it doesn’t actually weigh that much, so I’d be surprised if it hit 1 tonne in total. That leaves 500kg headroom for expansion.
Assessing the tare is useful, and something the committee should do prior to purchase, in addition to getting the truck checked out. Bear in mind that the steel ramps will be removed, so the actual tare will be lower than what it is currently, with the ramps installed. Note that it does have a new COF, so it is likely to be in reasonable order. [/quote]
I’d like to know which models you were comparing to - I found three different one for a 1986 Ford Trader, and again by comparing pictures, the ones like the model in question were heavy - if you’d prefer tare over GWL then they were quoting Tare 3.4+ tonnes, for an unmodified, flat-tray truck, and 7+ tonnes for GLW, and remember it’s GLW that determines HT or not. This one has been modified for an extra-wide body, AND has a fully enclosed box, so even without the ramp it’s going to be heavier.
And current WOF/COF means nothing - shit happens, and it’s a 23-year-old truck :-/
Unless we get a benefactor who is prepared to store our gear or house our shed for free, we are looking at significant cash outlay in perpetuity. I’m comparing truck purchase and running costs to the the estimated $2500 p.a. for storage alone. Unless we change our current activities significantly, I don’t expect more than 5-6 weekend games a year where the truck will be used. Let’s assume and average of 150km round trip (this is very conservative). That’s still only 750km to 900km a year, hardly a massive wear on tyres etc. As for the cost of diesel, I have no problem with the cost of transport being factored into the cost of a game. It’s good to see St Wolfgangs offer petrol money for to tow the trailer, but this is the first time I have personally heard of compensation being given to the person who tows the trailer, usually there is an expectation that it will be gratis - this goes for all games, I’m not in any way singling out or criticising St Wolfgang’s.[/quote]
Ok, so lets go with $2,500 pa for a secured storage unit, we could likely get something akin to the size of our current shed. With lighting, pest control (rat-safe for golems), easy access like a Thai girl’s skirt, and 24-hour on-sight security for our currently uninsured gear…
Compare this to $4k for ‘a’ truck, (lets ignore the HT thing for now until the seller confirms for me one way or the other), $500 to bring it up to what we feel is secure to keep our gear, 18 months COF checks, at best 1 years rego, at worst 18 months, and a dash of RUC and vehicle insurance. I make that a cool $5k, $4k of which needs to be forked out immediately.
The alternative, paid storage, can be drip-fed monthly at ~$200/month starting at our convenience, and will stretch for TWO YEARS before you reach the same financial figure. Two years to concede and buy a vehicle that can store and move the gear suitably, or another option is found. Also, we’d still have the trailer for moving gear to/from events, which admittedly is a problem in itself, but it’s there - it might even be some deal could be wrangled where we can park the trailer at the storage place too, for a discounted rate. Convenient!
The other bonus is that it doesn’t have to be fixed term. If someone suddenly has garage space in 3 months time they’re willing to rent out for a reasonable price, we have the option of quitting the storage space and taking them up on it - or whatever other solution presents itself.
Actually, my experience is that - for residential streets - councils don’t care at all about legally parked vehicles. We had an abandoned car outside our place for months and when I rang the council to do something about it, they said they would sticker it in a couple of weeks and then wait a month to see if the owner does anything. Proactive, they are not. I don’t see any reason not to park the truck on a residential street, say, near the Gear Officer’s abode. Also, we could simple approach businesses that have spare carparks until one says they would not mind us taking up 2 or 3 spaces. Parking is hardly a showstopper in the wider scheme of things.[/quote]
I’ve had parking tickets and vehicle removal warnings after three weeks, so we’ll have to chalk that to different experiences.
Good point, however, we could time the COF check with Gear Maintenance days, or even with weekend games.
The problem we face is what to do with the gear in the short term. Unfortunately, the truck concept is the best option at present. Sure, it will have ongoing costs, but so will commercial storage solutions. IMO, the benefits of a truck outweigh the negatives, and I’m confident we can address any issues associated with owning a truck.[/quote]
And again, that’s where I have to disagree. It’s a much, much higher initial up-front cost, and locks us immediately into a single solution. There’s also higher chance of an unexpected cost increase - despite having a current COF, breakdowns happen. It goes for any vehicle. I’m not saying it will happen, but there is a chance of hidden extras, as Ryan has just pointed out.*
Comparitively, paid storage is cheaper short term, likely cheaper medium term, (depending on how you rate a 2-year timeframe), and gives us far better leeway to find a long-term solution, as well as being a fixed and predictable cost. Plus, we could have this sorted tomorrow if we so wanted.
I’m not saying we can’t do the truck thing, I just think it’s a bad idea, certainly as a quick solution to our immediate woes, and it’s folly to consider it the only real option. It’s something to consider when we have more time to weigh up options.
Also, on review, the capacity of the truck will in fact be significantly smaller than that of the shed, despite my earlier appraisal - the box of the truck is smaller than the shed by about 1.2m length. Last time I saw it, the shed was pretty chokka. Are we even sure it will be big enough for everything?
*[size=85] I have a friend whose father runs the AA call-out service for the South Waikato area, his advice was “if you can afford to repair a car, you can afford to buy second hand”. I had to sell my beloved Honda Civic for $250 because the engine bracket gave out after 6 months…[/size]
Unless we get a benefactor who is prepared to store our gear or house our shed for free, we are looking at significant cash outlay in perpetuity. I’m comparing truck purchase and running costs to the the estimated $2500 p.a. for storage alone. Unless we change our current activities significantly, I don’t expect more than 5-6 weekend games a year where the truck will be used. Let’s assume and average of 150km round trip (this is very conservative). That’s still only 750km to 900km a year, hardly a massive wear on tyres etc. As for the cost of diesel, I have no problem with the cost of transport being factored into the cost of a game. It’s good to see St Wolfgangs offer petrol money for to tow the trailer, but this is the first time I have personally heard of compensation being given to the person who tows the trailer, usually there is an expectation that it will be gratis - this goes for all games, I’m not in any way singling out or criticising St Wolfgang’s.[/quote]
Ok, so lets go with $2,500 pa for a secured storage unit, we could likely get something akin to the size of our current shed. With lighting, pest control (rat-safe for golems), easy access like a Thai girl’s skirt, and 24-hour on-sight security for our currently uninsured gear…
Compare this to $4k for ‘a’ truck, (lets ignore the HT thing for now until the seller confirms for me one way or the other), $500 to bring it up to what we feel is secure to keep our gear, 18 months COF checks, at best 1 years rego, at worst 18 months, and a dash of RUC and vehicle insurance. I make that a cool $5k, $4k of which needs to be forked out immediately.
The alternative, paid storage, can be drip-fed monthly at ~$200/month starting at our convenience, and will stretch for TWO YEARS before you reach the same financial figure. Two years to concede and buy a vehicle that can store and move the gear suitably, or another option is found. Also, we’d still have the trailer for moving gear to/from events, which admittedly is a problem in itself, but it’s there - it might even be some deal could be wrangled where we can park the trailer at the storage place too, for a discounted rate. Convenient!
The other bonus is that it doesn’t have to be fixed term. If someone suddenly has garage space in 3 months time they’re willing to rent out for a reasonable price, we have the option of quitting the storage space and taking them up on it - or whatever other solution presents itself.[/quote]
You are forgetting that if we buy a truck we actually have an asset after those two years that might in fact last us long into the future if we look after it.
If we do decide to go with a truck for gear storage, it would be well worth getting an AA vehicle inspection check of it done before making a purchase decision. These are really good for picking up potential problems and finding out what bits might require fixing.
It may be best to go for a vehicle that hasn’t been modified as modified ones can be harder to insure. Something to check with insurance companies before purchase?
I’d also take the age of the truck into consideration and the odometer reading. Knowing how many Kms a vehicle has done gives a rough idea of how worn out the engine is.
Off road storage would also be good, helps to deter theft and break ins, and would mean the truck could be covered with a tarp or something to reduce rusting.
I think that Dave’s idea of short term storage might be a good idea, unless a truck that is a clearly good, reliable deal comes up quickly. It can take some time to find a good vehicle, and it is better to take the time to do so than to rush things. We don’t want to purchase a white elephant.
Having just dumped a car that was only 15 years old because it was costing me $1000+ in repairs every 6 months to get it’s WOF, I heartily concur with the “old vehicles cost more money than you think” argument.
It’s a shame, because it would be a nice solution to the hideous trouble getting a car able to tow the trailer always seems to be.
Having looked at the rules again, we may be able to get away with a GLW of up to 6 tonne, which is the max weight of a “campervan or tradesperson’s vehicle” that can be driven with a car license so long as the on-road weight doesn’t exceed 4.5 tonne. I’m guessing these trucks might qualify as a tradesperson’s vehicle, assuming the driver was considered to be “employed” by the society? See ltsa.govt.nz/licensing/nz-dr … ences.html
Having said that, it’s still storage and especially the gamble of possible multi-thousand-dollar repair costs that worries me.
One of my concerns about hiring storage space is how difficult a pack in and a pack out would be, especially if our storage unit was located far inside the building. Just pointing out that these might become even more of a mission.
We’re looking at roughly $250 per month for storage. That’s about how much a low-cost Wolfgang day game with high attendance makes. We’d need to be making at least that much each month to afford storage.
And if we can put some thought into (while we all have our thinkign caps on) of how we’re going to solve the problem of owning a behemoth trailer that practically requires a tank to tow, that’d be great. I’m very cranky at the moment I’ve spent [size=150][color=#FF0000]all week[/color][/size] juggling people to get the trailer out there and then back home home. This society needs to give Matt’s dad a frickin’ medal.
Certainly a large wad of petrol vouchers or something equally useful as a Christmas present is in order. >.< With a giant “Thank you” card.
These two trucks aren’t much more expensive than the one that started this discussion (so far, one is an auction, one has an asking price). They’re smaller, so more maneuverable and about 10 years younger. Are they big enough? The kms are pretty high, 260,000+, but I dunno what’s reasonable for a truck engine.
trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor … 484891.htm
trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor … 701709.htm
All the other issues raised with a truck still stand, but clearly the trailer is NOT working out as hoped. It’s causing worse drama than asking lots of people to each take an extra box in their car each game. The society could look at purchasing a 2nd hand car big enough to tow it and with a tow bar, but I don’t really see how that’s better than a truck.