Free e-book on psychological experience of LARP

Community Larp discussion
#41

That’s certainly a lot better than what was on the blurb, and I fully appreciate both the efforts taken and the artistic aims of the game (and again, I’m glad that people are trying to do these sorts of games). At the same time, its still not entirely clear about what the players are in for (other than an intense psychological experience - which is advertising, not a warning - which will involve psychological and emotional abuse - which is a tad vague).

I also understand the need to avoid spoilers, but if its something you’d learn in the first few minutes of a three-hour larp, its not a spoiler. Unless there was a specific reason for secrecy, I don’t think it would have hurt to say upfront something like

“This game is inspired by the Stanford Prison Experiment (link). It will involve themes of power, authority, sadism and helplessness, as well as finding out how people react when placed in positions of authority over others. You may learn unpleasant things about yourself as a result.” (plus existing warnings about acting out physical violence, and on psychological and emotional abuse).

That way, people can find out what they’re in for before they’ve made a commitment to play.

(Personally, I was put off by the blurb, as not offering enough information to judge what the game was about and whether I wanted to play it. Plus, I was GMing that night. From the discusisons I’ve had with participants since, I’d likely play it if it was re-run).

#42

Trust was not just the Stanford, or the Milgram experiments, it is an amalgamation. The trick was to add enough to it so that it would work as a Game rather than as an Experiment. The lack of information is part of what we were building. My original impulse was to include the studies it was based off in the writeup but was convince against it. As it is, it can’t be rerun in the same way just because everybody already knows what the game is. The initial confusion and lack of information which results in character creation could only have been done that once.

#43

I understand that some of the players knew exactly what experiments were used as inspiration early on, so the secrecy may not have been necessary or effective.

But yes, blurb-writing is a shit, especially when you’re writing from just from the game concept rather than the full game.

Did that confusion make a difference? And would the lack of it really matter for a re-run? If they find out in the first five minutes anyway, and the core of the game is about how people respond under such circumstances, does knowing really make a difference to the gameplay? (It makes an obvious difference in terms of attracting players who are interested in the game, while not appealing to those who are not).

#44

Look, I’m not going to go into the details of the game publicly, with people who have not played it. We had reasons for it. Some knew the experiments, but not the majority and that being in rumor was fine.

#45

Although this thread has gone a tad off the original topic, I’d like to comment on where it’s gone, namely, Bad Dreams experience.

I’d been personally challenged separately by both Gaffy and Vanya to attempt one of their Bad Dreams games. I was aware of the nature that most of these games have, ie boundary pushing, some horror, R18, and so on. However, I’m not the sort of person who usually enjoys games of that nature, for example, I stay well away from Dreams in the Witch House. People know this of me, including Vanya & Gaffy.
So, when I applied for Bad Dreams this year, I did so on the knowledge that my friends who were running this game and had challenged/invited me to play also had a fair idea of how much they would be able to push me. I know Vanya deliberately asked for me to be put on the short list from the many who put BD as their first/second choice. I spent almost three weeks looking at the email (written above) trying to decide if I really did want to do this game, and after a further conversation with Vanya, I decided to give it a go. I did not regret the decision.

Now, I understand that as I’m a friend of the GMs of BD, my experience isn’t a fair test for every single one of the players. That said, the lead up to the game, and the game itself, I felt I was personally being stretched as a Larper, but also felt very within my comfort zone. I think the GMs did a good job overall, including giving a small amount of wind-down discussion at the end.

That said, my experience afterwards did lead me to think a more in depth discussion at the end may have been good - we got to talk about what had happened, but the fact is that not all of us are similar to myself, and can have emotions purged quickly. Even though I felt mostly fine as we went off to bed, I did spend the rest of Chimera dissecting BD and my own actions in the game in my head. It took a conversation with some other players after the whole event had ended to fully deal with some of the issues.

Now, that’s not entirely a bad thing, in fact IMO it is the point of BD.
That said, if I, who enjoyed the game, and am one who is able to purge emotions quickly, had to spend time dissecting it over a few days and further talks: is that a success on part of the game, or a worry for those people who hold on to their emotions?

I do not believe there is blame to be thrown around on this issue however, merely that a discussion about concerns is a good thing.

#46

i should like to point out the irony and hilarity of Vanya making other people bleed.

#endjoke

#47

oh and links galore! (pulled from lit review, which i fail hard at)
gamingaswomen.com/ has some awesome articles on this:

http://gamingaswomen.com/posts/2012/09/saying-no/

http://gamingaswomen.com/posts/2012/06/addressing-rape-in-your-game/

http://gamingaswomen.com/posts/2012/06/the-languages-of-sexuality-and-how-they-relate-to-game-design-and-game-play/

http://gamingaswomen.com/posts/2012/06/sensitive-stuff-at-the-gaming-table/

#48

If I can take it this thread back to its original topic for a moment, I have increasingly found that ‘light-hearted’ (or as I think of them, ‘superficial’) larps just don’t seem to engage me as much as they used to. Maybe that’s always been the case and I’m just discovering it, or maybe it’s something that’s changed as my larp experience grows, but the most enjoyable games I’ve ever been in were ones that swept me up emotionally or psychologically in some way.
These weren’t always negative ways either, and they weren’t games that were necessarily designed to facilitate bleed or edginess - but for me, at that point, for some reason, they did.
As one of the people who had an extreme negative experience in Into the Woods this Chimera, I don’t have any regrets at all. I found it extremely cathartic and a great learning experience. I wasn’t expecting it, which is not ideal, but I don’t think anyone could have predicted where things were going to go. I can’t explain it, but there’s something really enjoyable about being completely swept away by emotion - I don’t think that means I have any sort of ‘issues’ I need to work through. And it was interesting experience being inside the head of someone who was quite different from myself. It wasn’t a vicarious ‘I want to be a nasty person because I’m not allowed to IRL’ - there’s a difference between being the bad guy who knows he’s bad and likes it, and being the bad guy who genuinely doesn’t realise and even thinks he’s helping. It gave me a lot of insight into people and interpersonal interactions, which I find very valuable.
I guess the best thing I can compare it to is an adrenaline sport - potentially dangerous, yes, but hella fun. Everyone has their limits of course, and I probably wouldn’t play GR just because I think it might be getting too close to the risk of doing some serious damage. I would have liked to play BD this Chimera, although maybe two emotionally intense games in one weekend would have been too much.

#49

digra.org/dl/db/10343.56524.pdf

^excellent article about the Positive-Negative Experience in Extreme Roleplaying. Talks about GR as well as some others

#50

And as long as we’re talking about the Milgram Experiment, it’s interesting to note that “84 percent of former participants surveyed later said they were “glad” or “very glad” to have participated, 15 percent chose neutral responses (92% of all former participants responding).[12] Many later wrote expressing thanks. Milgram repeatedly received offers of assistance and requests to join his staff from former participants.” (Wikipedia)

#51

[quote=“No Rectangulars”]http://www.digra.org/dl/db/10343.56524.pdf

^excellent article about the Positive-Negative Experience in Extreme Roleplaying. Talks about GR as well as some others[/quote]

That is an interesting read. Thanks for pointing it out.

#52

i found the review of GR by the rapists highly highly disturbing, as if they believed they had learned something from it.

it is a disgusting belittlement of a horrific event that is not only unneeded to create empty (try, ‘empathy for a rape victim’ the art piece by nz home grown feminist artist, far better) but turns a cause of would-be personal development into a live action role playing game.

#53

Hey, this is a really interesting podcast: freakonomics.com/2012/09/14/ … /#comments
It talks about some really interesting ‘immersive theatre’ productions and how they went about manipulating the physical space and their audience members (‘situalionism’ is a word that gets used about how social norms got changed in the context of the events), plus some different points of view about the Milgram and Stanford Prison experiments. They don’t reference larp, but there are some comments that do.

#54

Um, could someone clarify what GR is? I’ve been watching this topic with interest and I can’t figure out what it is or what exactly it entails.

#55

Um, could someone clarify what GR is? I’ve been watching this topic with interest and I can’t figure out what it is or what exactly it entails.[/quote]

Its NSFW so I’ve PM’d you an explanation.