Crosspire

Solomon makes the high end stuff.

And Beryl makes the stuff that’s actually useful. Makes sense.

Solomon would be careful not to step on the toes of local folk - if there’s a local gunsmith, he will not be competing for the same work.

Merchant War!

Why of course not. 'sides, doubt the wandering type like Solomon would have the time or facilities to spend on the smaller items people need, like nails.

[quote=“Ants”]For the Tavern

Travis takes Ammo, food, and general barter. Anything really that is of use out here. He’ll take chips if that’s all you got in the offing, but you’ll probably get a better deal with other things[/quote]

This seems pretty reasonable really. Crosspire likely deals in Chips because it is the middle of most everywhere, but taking chips to then trade for what you actually need likely has a markup. So dumping a deer on the barkeeps table is worth more than him taking the chips to then buy a deer from some hunter who will have to use the chips to get what they need.

For those that don’t need Ammo it probably works the same way. It’s not that valuable and is just a trade commodity. If it shifts around the value of it will drop, but when you find desperate people needing it the value will go up. So ammo is actually more like modern currency based on fluctuating value. It can be used up though which also can raise value. Chips are little more than paper money that people don’t need. Chips only become valuable when you start having bankers that take chips and offer interest on them. Then chips can start to earn more chips. This is an advanced economy. It’s possible that somewhere has set up a more advanced economy and someone in the know could take chips at a low price and sell them into the viable economy at a high price.

It would have been boss if someone played the banker.

Also it would be even more awesome if someone tried to sell someone else a bridge.

Except of course that ammo has been limited to facilitate trade, so bartering is supposed to be a big deal. Honestly if someone brought in a prop deer slung over their shoulder and dumped it on your bar I would expect a decent 5mins of haggling.

I get what you are saying though. There’s a fine line between immersion, realism and fun. I mentioned it somewhere else, when you have a favour economy in a game it just never works. Most people are too guarded to offer and trade favours. It might happen in a flurry at the end of the game, but not early on.

So it will be interesting to see how barter and ammo and chips all play out.

My comment is that barter or trade is there to colour the world, but TWTI is not a commerce game. Hence it is a small part. We will be primarily involved in the story of Crosspire and the issues that face it as it struggles to remain independent, survive, flourish. The drama will be around the people and the events, not exchange rates and tightly controlled barter. I don’t think that is the game that people are signing up to. I dont think you are suggesting that iin particular, but for my part I wont be applying anything other than an arbitrary price for things to simulate real life.

Not sure it needs any more than that TBH. What you think?

[quote=“Ants”]My comment is that barter or trade is there to colour the world, but TWTI is not a commerce game. Hence it is a small part. We will be primarily involved in the story of Crosspire and the issues that face it as it struggles to remain independent, survive, flourish. The drama will be around the people and the events, not exchange rates and tightly controlled barter. I don’t think that is the game that people are signing up to. I dont think you are suggesting that iin particular, but for my part I wont be applying anything other than an arbitrary price for things to simulate real life.

Not sure it needs any more than that TBH. What you think?[/quote]

Whilst I think that your right; one of the key elements of the post apocalyptic genre, the the scarcity of resources, so trade, barter, stealing, killing for resources is a strong plot generator.

Getting ammo, when your running out is gonna be taxing for the gunslingers amongst the players. Having Ammo at the start of the game is good, but at future events, players with the weapon smithing skill, should have the ability to make more between the games as this is a key facet of their characters.
Whilst still enjoying all the awesome story and roleplaying as well. They have decided to define their characters as such, and may enjoy the bartering side of the game as well.

2c and all…

I’m with Ants, although what Matt said is also viable. Trade / Barter / Chips etc will be a mid level issue, I think. Won’t be the be all and end all, but will be important for some exchanges. I’d expect a moderate amount of haggling between people when it comes down to it. I’d also imagine we’d work towards a “norm” - a night is always worth 2 bullets for example, a spot on the floor of the bar is 1 bullet. But then it might come to a point where the rooms are all taken, someone walks in and offers 4 bullets to the Bartender, to kick someone out of their room in order to get one…

Gee, Ants with all the bullets, so how much is a bullet worth then… to me x, to the militia 3x (or free when they take Ant’s Protection money)
Bullets I think would more likely be worth 10 chips (so to speak) and 2 bullets would buy you a weeks stay!!!

but then, thats what the game will evolve to find out

TazzyD, Ants and My characters might not be focused on the making of things, and as such this would not be important, but to others it might be their whole game reasons, (besides cool story and plot).

Gee, Ants with all the bullets, so how much is a bullet worth then… to me x, to the militia 3x (or free when they take Ant’s Protection money)
Bullets I think would more likely be worth 10 chips (so to speak) and 2 bullets would buy you a weeks stay!!!

but then, thats what the game will evolve to find out

TazzyD, Ants and My characters might not be focused on the making of things, and as such this would not be important, but to others it might be their whole game reasons, (besides cool story and plot).[/quote]

The nice thing about a barter economy is that items are worth what the person being bartered with thinks they’re worth. A person with out a gun and no interest in shooting will value a bullet less than say a bag of apples. Established values also change depending on scarcity and the place your in. One of the only things with real value is skills and the ability to do something for someone else. Advanced economic concepts don’t really apply here.

Also from a roleplay point of view barter as a story telling technique. It may be that you need to get a certain item or items to be able to deal with certain NPCs.

[quote=“sophmelc”]
The nice thing about a barter economy is that items are worth what the person being bartered with thinks they’re worth. [/quote]

Hey Sophie, you just nailed this whole argument with one simple sentence. Way to go!

TBH there is a good reason why I might want bullets. Less bullets means less gunshots :slight_smile:

That is good for business

But then people might start picking up bottles to hit each other over the head…and they might not be empty.

Guns are made of pretty sturdy whacking materials…

I’m just teasing the drunkard :wink:

[quote=“NickPitt”][quote=“sophmelc”]
The nice thing about a barter economy is that items are worth what the person being bartered with thinks they’re worth. [/quote]

Hey Sophie, you just nailed this whole argument with one simple sentence. Way to go![/quote]

Sometimes, I is good with the words.

While I agree on the basic concept I’m unsure of the translation to a Larp. Definitely interested to see how it plays out. In a computer RPG everyone is there to trade with you. In a Larp you might really need a bullet but no one is selling. So far the only real limited resources are bullets, everything else is a kind of what you can carry situation. That’s cool. I could carry a bunch of med packs. They’ll only be useful if people get hurt, otherwise they are kind of worthless. That’s cool. I like that. But other stuff like food and even chips to an extent don’t have real value at all. I could carry seeds for a corn crop. They are extremely valuable, but within the context of a Larp does anyone really see their value.

Unless…

This is what will probably make the whole thing work or not. Story elements and plot points, possibly set up by GM and Crew (and there are a lot of crew so they will want stuff and have a greater emphasis on trade and bartering) are what will get the system working.

I think it is potentially a really exciting in world mechanic, but I also know where Ants is coming from in saying it’s not that important and more for world and atmosphere building.

I guess I’m hoping that people think about it seriously. Like 1 bullet for a night stay in a hotel is a bad trade IMO. You only have 20. If you think of it as money then you can stay 20 nights in the world. That is not a lot. Of course if you have no survival then you probably have to stay in a hotel. It’s these kind of things. If you stay outside of town are you the first to get attacked by Raiders?

Yeah anyway, I’m definitely seeing it as a story telling technique, a way for the GM and Crew to get us doing fetch quest (because fetch quests are staple) and from that to develop a reason to barter and trade. And of course from there for us all to be eaten by savage raiders.

In regards to the earlier posts about gunsmiths, the townie smith has only been in town bit over a year and Solomon the travelling smith has been coming by for decades. He will have supplied Crosspire for all that time and prob has regular customers. Just an interesting point for Crosspire regulars to consider. The new smith may also be partly stepping on Fraser’s tinker character’s repairs etc.

Actually there has been a smithy in town for generations. Yes the current smith has only been around a couple years, but it is a service which helped found the town’s prosperity.