Bullying, insults, and having a safe and inclusive community

I would like to open a discussion about bullying and insults in our community. Of all the issues in our Code of Conduct, personal attacks and bullying are the least cut-and-dry. Often we encourage verbal conflict in game, or directly include race, sex or other ‘traditional’ targets of discrimination into the worlds we inhabit. Gossip and exclusionary behaviour often feature as part-and-parcel of in-character group dynamics. Sometimes these are explicitly mentioned in the game briefing or character sheets, but often they are implied or emerge as the game progresses. While it is all in-character, this is part of the hobby – conflict is a good driver of story.

We are good at actively reminding everyone that if they get uncomfortable with a scene they can just leave. The reality is that the social pressures to remain in a scene, or the distraction of getting caught up in the moment, mean that this is not a simple solution. It also only works after something has gone over to your realm of the unacceptable. It is of no protection at all if the attack is aimed, intentionally or not, at you out-of-character.

How do we distinguish between appropriate in character abuse and inappropriate behaviour?

When might it be appropriate to use someone’s sex or gender as an in-character means of discrimination? We certainly include sexism in plenty of our games, but it is usually intended to be done with the agreement of all parties and the acknowledgement that this is not socially acceptable in the real world. This all looks fine when the sexism mirrors ‘old fashioned male chauvinism’ – we believe we no longer engage in it in the real world, so paying tribute to it in game allows us to contrast socially acceptable in-character behaviour with out-of-character beliefs. But does this translate when we jump into female chauvinism? If you are ok with the former, surely the latter should be just as interesting. By contrast, if you find female chauvinism upsetting out-of-character, on what basis do you justify ever roleplaying male chauvinism?

What about race? We often create races or cultures within the game, then encourage intergroup discrimination based on these. When we directly include real world racist dynamics (or close analogies thereof, like Orcs in Mordavia), how do we do it tactfully?

What about class? In-character class discrimination is often explicitly built into our settings. However, our hobby lends itself to an interesting, and rarely discussed, out-of-character classed based discrimination. Our hobby is not cheap. Indeed, imagine how fabulous your real world wardrobe would be if all your props, costumes, and set dressing for LARP was spent on out-of-character fashion statements. Our amazing costumes come from hours of work or hundreds of dollars. Not everyone can afford this. We have for a long time had an NPC and PC class of participants. Certainly many people drift between the two classes, but one is definitely seen as more prestigious. Costume praising helps encourage awesome costumes in our communities. Costume praising is usually conditional, however. The dark side of this is that the absence of costume praising may be felt by those that are of less means. Worse, there is always the risk of costume shaming appearing (and if all you do is engage in conditional costume praising, you risk appearing as the silent approval of costume shaming). Likewise, there are time commitments to attending events, which means that those with more time to invest sometimes end up with much more prestigious or desirable roleplaying opportunities. To what extent is this appropriate, and to what extent does it become class discrimination?

What about personal remarks as insults? Coming up with creative insults on the fly is actually quite difficult. It is very easy to include cheap shots at someone’s out-of-character personal features in the heat of the moment. Body shaming is unfortunately very ingrained in our current culture, along with the mistaken belief that if you verbally abuse someone for being too skinny or too fat that a) it is a problem, b) it is your responsibility for fixing, and c) your abuse will somehow help or is otherwise justified. By contrast, insulting someone for in-character personal traits is usually fine, for example tattoos markings from a magical condition, or in-character disfigurement.

Lastly, what about exclusionary behaviour? When is it appropriate to ask someone not to come to an event, and who should take on this responsibility? Are you allowed to exclude someone from an event because of in-character reasons that are inherent in the game world? Indeed, is it ok to create asymmetrical in-character priorities for attending events, or should all in-game demographics get equal opportunity for events? What about excluding someone for out-of-character reasons? Where there is a legal warrant for this, that certainly makes sense – if someone has a restraining order against you, and want to turn up to an event, they are well within their rights to tell you not to attend. Likewise, if you have been banned by the GM’s or NZLARPs for breaching the games code of conduct, the GM’s or NZLARPs representatives are within their rights to exclude you. Are there any other cases where it might be appropriate to exclude someone for out-of-character reasons, and who should take on this responsibility? What if you just anticipate a problem, but nothing has happened yet? What if you just don’t like someone or don’t want to associate with them? We have private avenues for this in some circumstances, such as bunking arrangements at events, but the communication of this is strictly between the person with the dislike and the logistics organiser or GM’s. Is it ever appropriate to tell someone, directly or indirectly, that you don’t want them to attend because you don’t like something they have done out-of-character, or you don’t want to get caught up in their anticipated out-of-character drama?

We have, I believe, prided ourselves on being a very inclusive community, where social adeptness, extroversion, charisma, adhering to social norms and so forth are not prerequisites for inclusion.

So, what do we do if we cross over the line and see we have upset someone? Is it enough to realize the error and cease the behaviour, or do we sometimes need to apologize or make amends, and, if so, privately or publicly? How do we go about dealing with our own out-of-character animosity towards people (or, indeed, their characters)?

What if we are hurt out of character by someone’s behaviour? Who do we talk to about it? What systems do we have, and what systems might we need? Currently the NZLARPs Code of Conduct encourages you to talk to the GM’s or to a committee member, but is this enough?

What do we do if we sit as a third party to questionable conduct? At what point is it appropriate to step in on someone else’s behalf, and what are the best ways to go about this?

Social media adds a new and colourful dimension, too. It is well removed from the live action part of our hobby, is somewhat dehumanizing, is fast paced, and is highly limited in its tone. Sorting out bullying, exclusionism, and personal attacks at an event is hard enough, but our community spans well past the parameters of our events.

All this also depends on the sort of community we would like to be. My writing of this discussion piece is in response to sitting as a third party to a number of questionable situations, ranging from accidental insults to systematic emotional abuse. I would like to raise awareness of these issues in general, and foster constructive discussion, with the aim of helping our community be an inclusive and safe space for all of its members.

This is really important! (have posted the link to facebook)

In my opinion bullying is never ok, whether it being accidentally off the cuff, or repeated action in making someone feel unsafe/unwelcome. In through both our IC and OOC actions I think we should endeavour to foster inclusion. This does not mean that your character has to be inclusive, but can still participate and facilitate a shared story - though I would have to think more of specific ways of doing this.

From my perspective these are the only reason why someone should be discouraged from attending an event:
If they have broken law, or will do so if attending an event
If they have seriously breached the code of conduct at a previous event
If the content/venue is not suitable for their situation, age, experience roleplaying etc.

In other circumstances always err on the side of making it fun, inclusive and available for all those who want to participate. I think that this is the responsibility of not only organisers but the other participants.

A lot of thought provoking questions there Walter. Good stuff!

I’ll only touch briefly on one point. I found it quite uncomfortable in Crucible when some of the Valerian women were talking down about men (for those who don’t play Crucible, Valeria is a matriarchal society). That gave me what I consider valuable insight into what women in our society must suffer, and certainly raised my empathy towards them and intolerance for that sort of behaviour.

I think the important thing is that if people do express controversial beliefs IC that they try to ensure afterwards they apologise OOC for anyone who might be offended. I made some slightly, um, historically sensitive comments at the recent Sachsen social event (about how we could concentrate the Alteraanians in a camp, and put them to work). It was all a bit of an OOC joke (not that the holocaust was a joke, just that we joke about Sachsens being racist / their Germanic similarities). However I regret that afterwards I didn’t check that people realised it was in jest / apologised for making such a poor taste comparison.

Anyway, lots of food for thought, I’m not certain what the outcome you’re looking for here is, or is it just to prompt discussion on the subject.

I’ve got a lot of thoughts on this topic as a whole, but I’ll start with this one.

I have every right to say to another player “I don’t like roleplaying with you, it makes me uncomfortable/unhappy/unsafe.” What it’s not ok to do is make this everyone else’s (Gms, crew, other players’) problem. It’s up to you to make sure that you don’t run into them or keep away from them. It’s your responsibility. If you think it’s going to be an issue, then you can go to the GMs and say “If X person tries to RP with me, I am going to go OOC and walk away.” Again, this is not asking the GMs to enforce anything, just informing them of what will happen. If the other person wants to create drama, that’s up to them. But it’s up to you to enforce your own boundaries. Honesty and civility are the keys here.

If I’m running a game/event and someone I don’t like wants to attend - well, I think that depends on the reason. If, again, it’s unsafe/unhappy/uncomfortable, then yes, as long as you are abiding by the NZ larps code of conduct. If it’s your own game then there’s no duty for you to spend a lot of effort for someone you don’t get on with.

As for the IC events, I think there’s also a right for the organisers to say “please don’t come” if they have recently done something IC that would obviously impact negatively on the experience. I can’t assume that I should go to every IC social event, because my IC presence there would be detrimental for the experience that everyone else was working hard to create.

I think what would also be useful in discussing this is having a look of the Geek Social Fallacies. (plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html) Apologies for link, to long to post in its entirety. I think there’s a flipside to discussions like this, where the expectation is that everyone should be constantly all-inclusive and all welcoming. The reality is that this is something that’s not always going to be possible. People have arguments, not necessarily because either is a bad person but because of personality clash. What would happen, in an ideal world, is that they work to keep the antipathy out of game. People should be allowed to set their own boundaries without being accused of bullying.

I agree that this is a topic which needs to be discussed in a more public light. Bullying is a topic which has historically been difficult to discuss due to it’s very nature, and given the duality of larp, it is doubly difficult to address.

A lot of the depth of larp worlds would be lost if we removed the antagonism between character groups. However at the same time, we need to ensure that people understand that any antagonism is purely in character and not intended to be against any person.

In Crucible there have been some recent events which means that my character is going to be rather excluding towards another player, however out of character I have already approached the player and explained the situation. Despite this, I will be keeping the antagonism to a minimum and the most I’ll be playing it is probably to make one or two comments and then to avoid the character. I also plan on socializing out of character however as I want to ensure we both understand there are no hard feelings and the antagonism is not directed at them as a player!

In Fallout, we had the issue where due to some of our written issues between groups some people - both Players and Crew felt that we were being racially insensitive. We’re currently attempting to rectify the issues brought to light in our Post-Game critique survey. The issue that was brought up multiple times was the portrayal of our ‘Tribals’. While the Tribal groups are supposed to be loosely based on Maori culture, it is not supposed to be purely Maori in composition. We did brief the crew not to drop into stereotypical accents or behaviors, however this briefing was not listened to and after the game several people approached us both directly and indirectly stating they felt uncomfortable about the portrayal. Some of the other issues which we anticipated were not brought up as much as we expected; however due to the culturally sensitive nature of the game, we are going to be posting a more detailed explanation of how each group interacts, and what acceptable in character insults will be. However, it is something which we anticipate we will have to keep an eye on to ensure no one is feeling slighted out of character.

In general, I do think larps are a good way of addressing real social issues in a safe environment. As Jon mentioned, it can raise awareness for the social stigmatism others feel if the usual roles are reversed (as is the case with Valeria’s matriarchal society) or it can be used as a way to explore the emotional standpoint of groups in power vs those who are not. I’d actually be pretty keen on doing a Thesis on larp and re-enactment as a rehabilitation tool at some point, as I think that it could be used to great effect in teaching those traumatized how to reintegrate into a society and those around them how to deal with the person in question.

In terms of exclusion from events… I really do think that the only time this should happen is for out of character reasons, and only at the organizers discretion. If there is an IC reason for a particular character to be there, then the person should be offered the chance to crew the event or play a different character as otherwise it COULD be perceived as OOC slighting. James, Joe and I have not felt the need to approach anyone participating in Fallout about their behaviour in game one so far, and while we did originally have some concerns about some of the online behaviour of one of the participants before game one, we collectively agreed that we should give the person a chance in person due to how text can come across very differently from the original intention. There is however one person (who is only very tangentially connected to the larping scene) who I would personally be very hesitant to allow to attend a Fallout event for safety reasons as outside of the larping scene in my opinion, this person has proven himself to be an unsafe fighter and unwilling to change their style of fighting.

I think the issue of choice of insults and body image to be quite important. If someone’s character is a certain shape (or has any other kind of physical feature) purely by the fact they are that shape/have that feature OOC, then it’s not really an in character insult, even if it’s meant that way. Sure some people do not mind being mocked about their weight ooc, but I think it’s a situation where you should err on the side of not doing it unless you’re sure it won’t bother them - and even then, is it really necessary?

But it’s also the kind of insult that’s easy to pull up on the fly, because it’s right there in front of us and our culture is full of things mocking various types of people. I’d like to assume people aren’t offensive on purpose, so maybe just including ‘don’t mock people because of OOC things’ as part of a game briefing would be beneficial in helping people keep this in mind/helping new larpers be aware of it.

Larping is off the cuff though and it seems despite intentions offensive things may be said - and sometimes people have buttons that others might not know about. This is the sort of situation where apologies seem really important, and if someone does sincerely apologise for offense cause it seems best to just leave it at that - everyone fucks up, and if they deal with the fuckup maturely it seems to me that it should just be left at that. There’s not really a need to get mediators involved if the person who made the mistake is apologetic, and villainising them seems like it’d be counterproductive to an inclusive community. If they’re not that’s something else I suppose.

Of course it could be argued in whatever context X person just shouldn’t be offended, but even if you don’t get the reason then it seems pretty easy just to be like ‘hey, didn’t realise it was a problem, sorry if I upset you,’ and move on. If you are decent about it and they make a big drama it no longer seems like your problem.

It seems likely that it will be impossible to stop accidentally offending people completely partially just cause it’s a big community and impossible to know what’ll set other people off. So I figure just having clear guides for how to deal with these situations are good, that neither blame someone for being offended nor unfairly villainise people that make a mistake and then apologise.

But still, going back to the original point - there are a billion and one things to mock people about, many entirely in setting, so it seems both reasonable and more inclusive to leave OOC physical attributes out of it.

Great points.

Holocaust and Nazi references in general are quite difficult. We have had a couple of games with quite a lot of Nazi symbolism in them. I think most people in our community are very removed from the realities of that era, though I know there are a few people in the community for whom this is a very personal issue. To some extent LARP offers a medium where we can explore the mindsets involved in genocide. I know a few Crucible characters have explicitly explored the idea of being what we would probably call a war criminal. Usually though this sort of thing is done in an opt-in and a pre-aware basis, i.e. the setting leads itself to exploring genocide. I guess your example highlights one of the difficulties with off-the-cuff insults - it is hard to establish an agreement that it is acceptable beforehand (‘hey, time out, can I insult you about being like a victim of genocide? What do you mean I’m misusing the time-out rule?’). When pressed for time we often fall onto crutches or easily accessible forms of discrimination, which risk reflecting our OOC exposure to forms of discrimination. Doing an insult based on the genocidal context of Mao Tse-tung, for example, might require more cognitive effort than the easier to recall example of Nazism, and that is harder still than making a comparison to Genghis Khan. The flip side is that events that are easier to recall are probably because they are more relevant and thus more likely to be a trigger for someone (and if you start comparing people to victims of genocide, Nazism is sure to be close to people’s minds if not brought directly into the scene, as it is so widely known).

I really loved doing Shakespearean Insult games in drama at school. Perhaps we could work in insulting as a part of the game (where the game calls for it) - have regular verbal battles be a common and almost socially required dynamic, but encourage them to be creative, IC, and way over the top. That way we’d start to get practiced at coming up with suitable IC insults that are lovely and atmospheric yet not likely to cause OOC offense.

The Valerian female chauvinism is one example I had in mind. I have noticed a number of people struggle with it OOC, such as men not being content with being a second-class citizen or being exposed to the glass ceiling of power the culture has. The tendency is to be the ‘exception to the norm’. However, without a baseline norm to compare this to, being the exception suddenly becomes the norm. Thus we risk having yet another culture where men are free from IC gendered discrimination, alongside cultures where women are directly restricted by IC gendered discrimination, in a wider context of men being free OOC from a lot of gendered discrimination. I love how LARP has the power to expose us to different social dynamics - it’s a great way of identifying and critiquing beliefs about social norms.

Absolutely. If its an NZLARPS project, the NZLARPS constitution explicitly states that GMs of projects may exclude anyone they want, provided they act consistently with the Human Rights Act. If its not a project, its simply none of NZLARPS’ business who attends and who doesn’t.

On insults, there’s some very good advice here: larphacks.tumblr.com/post/104600 … -insulting

Love it! Especially the image at the end. So Greek.

On the subject of not inviting/allowing people into games.

I’ve noticed that there is actually quite a lot of social peer pressure to allow some, deny others. I’ve seen people allowed back to games after repeated bullying, abuse, lying or cheating, yet others not. I find it interesting that there are people we seem happy to ban, yet others no one wants to argue, or confront, over similar issues for fear of the social repercussions. When some of this behaviour has brought to the attention of GM’s and event organisers there has been more than a little hesitancy of addressing these issues and/or people. “Give them one more chance”, “We’ll discuss this later”, “We need more” … right up to “Hell no, not touching that!” lol.

This intrigues me to a degree. I say to a degree because I am just as guilty of not wanting to be that person having to confront them. Tbh? I sometimes wonder if I AM one of the people who others don’t wish to confront :slight_smile: We’ve had people leave campaign games due to OOC abuse, bullying or cheating. Very few choose to come forward with proof of it for, again, fear of ostracism and social repercussions. Am I willing to name names? Nope. Same deal as above. Not sure if this makes me a coward or just someone who doesn’t need that much trouble in my life.

Or someone who doesn’t want to cause further trouble for the victims.

The NZLARPS Code of Conduct prohibits harassment, bullying and personal attacks at NZLARPS events. If anyone has been bullied or harassed at an NZLARPS event, I encourage them to lodge a complaint. I’m not going to pretend it will be easy, but the committee will take your complaint seriously and we will work in good faith to resolve it.

Intentional abuse is rarely indiscriminate: malicious behaviour is usually very targeted and either socially sanctioned (consensus by gossip circle) or done in private. When it is indiscriminate, it’s actually quite easy to deal with - you piss off everyone so everyone calls you on your shit and holds you to the code of conduct. People are quite capable of doing nasty things in specific cases while still being nice people in general, so for a game organizer to step in there is always the risk that disciplining one person will cascade to that person and their friends leaving.

I think there is definitely a need of having a robust and overt process, with graded consequences, for breaching codes of conduct, including bullying and insults. This makes it easier for all parties to understand what to expect from a breach of conduct, allows for responses be consistent, and hopefully helps limit fallout from confronting people about their behaviour.

Or someone who doesn’t want to cause further trouble for the victims.

The NZLARPS Code of Conduct prohibits harassment, bullying and personal attacks at NZLARPS events. If anyone has been bullied or harassed at an NZLARPS event, I encourage them to lodge a complaint. I’m not going to pretend it will be easy, but the committee will take your complaint seriously and we will work in good faith to resolve it.[/quote]

I wish people would come forward more. I wish we had enough people those affected could trust.
Knowing the problem and where it comes from would greatly assist in doing something about it.

Or someone who doesn’t want to cause further trouble for the victims.

The NZLARPS Code of Conduct prohibits harassment, bullying and personal attacks at NZLARPS events. If anyone has been bullied or harassed at an NZLARPS event, I encourage them to lodge a complaint. I’m not going to pretend it will be easy, but the committee will take your complaint seriously and we will work in good faith to resolve it.[/quote]

I wish people would come forward more. I wish we had enough people those affected could trust.
Knowing the problem and where it comes from would greatly assist in doing something about it.[/quote]

I think having trusted processes may help here - something where people feel the appropriate level of response will be made without having repercussions on them for making a complaint. Trusted people to implement said process are also important… and that trust needs to be actively earned. We tried setting up a complaints email for the Valeria faction a while back, for example, but got nothing - I’m not convinced sending an email to a faceless account is a process that anyone really has any trust in. All the issues I have heard of have been from word of mouth and away from the context.

If you have ever been told of a case of bullying, harassment, and so forth, what were the circumstances in which the person told you? Were they directly involved? Was it at the time or after the event? Did you know them well beyond LARP or spend time with them at lots of games? What level of response did they want from you?

[quote=“Walter Hamer”]
The Valerian female chauvinism is one example I had in mind. I have noticed a number of people struggle with it OOC, such as men not being content with being a second-class citizen or being exposed to the glass ceiling of power the culture has. The tendency is to be the ‘exception to the norm’. However, without a baseline norm to compare this to, being the exception suddenly becomes the norm. Thus we risk having yet another culture where men are free from IC gendered discrimination, alongside cultures where women are directly restricted by IC gendered discrimination, in a wider context of men being free OOC from a lot of gendered discrimination. I love how LARP has the power to expose us to different social dynamics - it’s a great way of identifying and critiquing beliefs about social norms.[/quote]

This is the thing I struggle with the most, and am very glad you brought it up (since I am playing in a culture that is matriarchal in Crucible).
The post will mainly be a collection of my thoughts on this matter, since I have well… a bit of experience. Sorry if it is random or not conveyed properly (since tone is not properly represented on the internet :slight_smile: )

Sometimes I do feel a bit saddened by some of the things my character has said - often because I am drawing from real world examples of discrimination that my gender faces.
But also, hearing from men who seem genuinely annoyed and offended by some things said is in turn, can be a little upsetting as it is something that they only have to be exposed to in a land of make-believe, and not in real life. That and I don’t want anyone to feel bad OOC at all by something I have done.

As you said, men might not be content with being a second-class citizen or having a limit placed on them because of their gender, which means they want to be an exception. There is always a tendency to be an ‘exception’. But if there are nothing but exceptions, then what is left is just the same gender balance and discriminations that contradicts the culture within the game. There have been times where my character (and others) have compensated in order to reinforce the gender balance we are pretending to have in the game. This unfortunately results in ‘putting’ someone in their ‘place’ based on their gender, and inferring negative traits as a result of it. Because our gender is something pretty relevant to us OOC, it has the potential to feel like a personal attack. This can go both ways, as failure to adhere to the culture norm that is explicitly stated for this nation from a male could also feel disrespectful to the females, who see this as a chance to finally hold power they wouldn’t normally have OOC. I know I personally feel pretty bummed if I am giving an order to a male, who in turn ignores me until another male tells him to do the same thing, then listens. It doesn’t feel inclusive to me, as my IC-aimed exclusion got dismissed, and I am now excluded from something I should be in control of, and feel like my ability to play my character is being diminished. I guess mainly, I am wondering why it is so hard for men to be the submissive ones for once, and let females be dominant. Is it really that upsetting to try?

The idea of Valeria as a culture is fascinating as it is a reverse of the current societal gender norms. But because it is the reverse, those who are placed in the lesser position of course relish at the RP chance they have to be on top, while those pushed from top to the lesser are very uncomfortable, despite the balance being outlined in the game information from the beginning.

Finally, we get to my point…
It can all feel like bullying if this isn’t done right. Most of us understand that we really don’t think the other gender is weaker or inferior. A bit of self-monitoring can go a long way too, and I think if there is less resistance, it can be an interesting experience for both sides, and can help expose some pretty powerful underlying beliefs in our society. We aren’t intentionally provoking negativity towards the male gender from our actions, but rather, trying to maintain the rather interesting culture that we were presented with, since the entire gender dynamic is a rather major part of it.

TL;DR Playing an alternate gender balance can be tough, particularly if it makes the gender who is now in the submissive position uncomfortable. It has the potential however to be very reflective of our current society, and perhaps make us all think a bit about things we don’t tend to realise about how we treat the other gender. With some understanding and self-monitoring, it can work with both sides not feeling bullied.

Not really sure this really answered anything or properly contributed to the discussion, but figured I would throw my 2cents worth in

Well said, Courtney. There is an element of ‘lets be fair with how we are unfair’.

And on a personal note, I found it really fun being on the unprivileged end of gendered status.

Which I thought is part of the fun if everyone participates. When it is one sided, it can feel… pretty cruel. And I of course think no one is out to intentionally hurt anyone, ever.

I think the most interesting thing is that even in a culture within the game where women are truly seen as equal to men, it has to be actively reinforced to make it obvious enough to notice. Speaks a bit of our societal inequality to me, if effort is required for the genders to break even in a fictional setting.

Yes, I had noticed you seemed to have fun. In turn, that made a lot of us have more fun being able to play alongside that!

The gender thing is interesting, but I also feel that it’s rather telling that it only really comes up when the gender balance is reversed.

In the case of Crucible specifically, there’s a patriarchal society, a matriarchal society, and a bunch of other factions if you don’t want to play gender politics. People do not only have the option of a society with one kind of gender politics, so it feels that if they join a faction where it is a factor, then they are sort of buying into the setting - the same as they’d be buying into that particular form of classism if they played a Korashuran, or the military hierarchy if they wanted to play a hound. People then getting tetchy because women are in charge - honestly that angers me. It’s one thing to play a character that disagrees with that element of the setting - although as Courtney noted it sounds disheartening if everyone’s choosing to play that exception - but people that have a problem ooc should reread the codex, or pick a faction that doesn’t have gender politics. Gender seems to be a wider part of the setting - one of the NPC factions is led by the Malevingian for example. Gender dynamics can be a really interesting thing to play with, though mileage may vary.

Alteraanians have straight up implied domestic violence in Crucible, it’s visceral and emotive roleplaying, and it’s great (so long as it’s done with the consent of those involved, which I’m sure it was). Other games have had patriarchal gender balances, and if people want to create strictly historical one offs in most instances the societies are patriarchal. Most female roleplayers seem capable of dealing with this, or choose to avoid games where this is the case I suppose - despite it being much closer to real life than a fantasy matriarchy is.

So why is Valeria a big deal? It’s one faction in a game with lots of choices including a patriarchy. As a female I’m happy to play around with being a character in a patriarchal society (even if I played a character that had certain opinions, I wouldn’t be annoyed OOC so long as the patriarchy was clearly on the box). I wouldn’t want to say we couldn’t play certain types of games because of how I felt - if I really didn’t like it, I’d cross dress, or play something else more to my tastes. But as a female I also loved the idea of being able to experience a different gender balance, because most larps are at most equal to genders (and IMO sometimes in these ‘equal’ societies tend to expressing patriarchal norms anyway). Gender’s been a big element for my character in the game, and it’s been interesting both from the perspective of a women dealing with Alteraan and the experience of having sexist views and those being supported by Valerian society. I think anyone that has a big problem with Valeria needs to really examine the reasons why they’re uncomfortable playing second to women and maybe learn something about society.

Still - there’s a difference between an intellectual problem and an emotive one I guess, and Like Jon said it’s possible to find something uncomfortable without actually thinking others should alter their roleplay. I guess that’s just where OOC discussions come in, and I think the gender ones around crucible have been really interesting.

However people that are seriously angsty about matriarchal societies in larps - they should take it as a place to learn rather than something to get OOC angry about, in my opinion.

Thanks Phillipa, excellent points.

On a related note, our community appears, from my perspective, little different to many other communities when it comes to letting women have a voice in discussions. Sometimes when I’m in a large group discussion I try to observe when people talk over other people, the speed at which people jump in with a comment, and which members of a mixed gender pairing receive the majority of eye-gazing and attentive behaviour. By far the majority of the time, interruptions tend to be done by men. Likewise, men tend to be in with a point within seconds of someone finishing their sentence, whereas women tend to come in after a pause of a few seconds (though this is slowly changing, at least in some cases). Attention usually goes to the male in a mixed gender couple, unless there is a specific reason to address the female. This is far more subtle than bullying or harassment, and even after years of trying not to I still find myself doing all of these things. I have to consciously try to let others speak, and not jump in with a point just because there is an opening. I believe it is partially within this context that inverting gendered norms becomes so difficult.