Bows & Arrows for NZLarps

Community Gear
#2

Some of it will be common sense- keep the bow unstrung when it’s not in use, store the strings separately etc. Quivers will be needed as well for carrying the arrows and the archers will need to be briefed to check the arrows for splits etc before returning them. I’d also suggest painting the shafts with a band of colour and ordering arrows with a certain colour fetching to keep them from getting mixed up.

Personally I’d feel far more comfortable knowing that the crew archers have been trained and had some practice before being unleashed and I’d be much happier if bows were made a daylight-only weapon. A list of people who have ‘qualified’ for archery/are proficient enough for the GM to be happy will be a good idea.

Archers need finger protection as well- trust me, it soon hurts quite a bit when you’re pulling back on the string. Archery gloves can be bought from most places that have normal archery gear.

To keep archers from getting mobbed on I’d strongly suggest that they train for a bit with two shield bearers to get used to group work and firing from behind others- the shield bearers protect them from attack and if they get cut down the archer should run.

#3

[quote=“Shades”]
Archers need finger protection as well- trust me, it soon hurts quite a bit when you’re pulling back on the string. Archery gloves can be bought from most places that have normal archery gear. [/quote]

And forearm/wrist protection. The snap of the bowstring can hurt.

On top of training for archers (some people don’t have a clue how to fire a bow), is it also useful to train people on how to accept incoming fire. Obviously you don’t want to aim a bow at someone’s head, but the nature of Larp arrows makes it difficult to aim them that accurately without a lot of practice. With Larp melee fight we are practicing against each other, learning how to take blows, how to defend, things like that. I think this is equally if not more important with archery combat.

For example, I was at a Wellington training day on Sunday. I was happy just doing target shooting against trees away from the main melee skirmishes. I didn’t want to fire into the skirmishes at all because without knowing it could happen someone could potentially get hurt. We didn’t set up any archery drills but it could be worth doing that sort of thing. I think ultimately it still comes back to the archer choosing safe skirmishes or targets to shoot at, but without practice how is the archer going to learn that.

#4

Agreed, it’d be really good for arrows to feature more in the training sessions that people have outside of games, get people used to protecting/attacking archers and help archers to practice with moving targets. It’s harder than you might think to adjust range when your target decides to run at you.

#5

There is more that can go wrong with a bow. I suggest a ‘bow-safe’ roster be created.

This matches up with the Crucible ‘NPC Badge’ system, so I know they’ll be able to do it.

#6

As quite a few of my fellow larpers have pointed out the kit required for a single person to use a bow with comfort is fairly extensive.

Bow + Arrows :slight_smile:

Shades said that finger protection helps keep your fingers pain free plus he pointed out that quivers will be needed for carrying the arrows.

Jarratt said forarm / wrist protection to protect from snapping bowstrings.

These are all great ideas and are the best way to keep your crew comfortable while using the bows.

Some of these items may get picked up by other crew as cool looking “armor” especially the forarm / wrist protection. Perhaps it might be a good idea to assign a quiver to each bow. Inside which we keep any items that are specifically for that bow during games - the string, the glove(s) and the forarm/wrist protection. These “bags” (quivers :slight_smile:) could then be kept to one side and issued out with a bow to those who will be using them and returned in the same way to make sure that the bow gear all stays together. :slight_smile:

I know that the Sabbatt team (Gaffy and Sheryl in particular) are very hot on larp archery safety.

In so far as safty training - I helped out at the St Wolfgangs game (many years ago now) and I think people enjoyed the lessons and it helped them to understand larp archery. I know that Jarred (among others perhaps) has now taken up archery and I am sure the commitie knows that I am a big advocate of safe archery in larps.

-As always - sorry for any spelling errors.
~Adam

While I understand I may not be the best candidate for training people in the future I would like to offer my help to anyone who wishes to take up the mantle be it a GM for a one off game or the NZLARPS Gear officer who just wants to know more :slight_smile:

#7

[quote=“Adam Parsons”]Shades said that finger protection helps keep your fingers pain free plus he pointed out that quivers will be needed for carrying the arrows.

Jarratt said forarm / wrist protection to protect from snapping bowstrings.[/quote]

I have some good leather scraps of suitable weights to make finger tabs and braces from if someone wants to make a pile of them for nzlarps. They’re a very simple project.

#8

Archery is good fun. If I was Auckland based I’d be happy to put my hand up to help with bow safety.

Now I still consider myself fairly novice with a bow, I try to do it as safely as possible. Despite this, I still had 1 almost headshot. 1 shot which struck Greg across the eyes with the arrow shaft (without harm or injury). And 1 nut-shot at the last Teonn day game.

A few minimums I think are needed:

Bows - all within the international standard. I leave mine unstrung most of the time because it is a wooden bow and being strung continuously lessens the lifespan of the bow. Never dry fire them.

Draw finger and forearm protection - I don’t see these as a “mandatory” requirement I can suggest that bow strings to the forearm start to sting after a while. If you’re building an archery pack then you might as well make them available.

Arrows - despite the cost I am quite keen on using IDV arrows. These DO need checking after firing each time, the head should be intact, no distorted and mud wiped off. Shafts need to be checked for cracks and damage. Fletching and nocks that they are in place.

Techniques

Plucking and partial draw
These are essentially the same thing. Plucking is a very short draw used for firing on close targets (2-3m) while a partial draw requires practice and allows you to fire lower velocity shots into combat (reducing injury potential).

Shoulder line draw
To reduce head shot potential, restricting angle of draw to parallel with the ground when drawn at shoulder level. Remember arrows fly in an arc so by limiting the upwards angle, we limit the number of head height shots. Aim for the centre of mass and remember to adjust for uneven ground. Shooting down a slope increases your chance of a head shot so take slope into account.

Distance
Sniping someone across the battlefield seems like a cool idea. Except, in my limited experience and limited level of skill, the further you shoot, the more inaccurate you are. I find my best archery happens at 5 - 20 meters. And mostly at about <10m. Shoot within your ability.

Practice
More = better.

I don’t think these will prevent the occasional poor shot coping someone in the scone or nuts but the IDV arrows appear to be very well made and if we shoot responsibly then injury will avoided. I mean Greg kept on charging despite an arrow to the face and whoever I got in the nuts didn’t stop for more than a few seconds (and shaking their fist at me).

#9

On the weekend at 33 AR, I lent my arrows to a player, at the end of the weekend, one shaft had broken, how, i’m not sure, however when the player picked it up, he checked it and it was put back in his cabin, the exact response I’d expect from any player. Checking the arrow each time & taking it completely out of play when broken.

The arrow hasn’t been used that much (in my oppinion) but that shouldn’t matter, everything has the potential of breaking.

Good work player!

#10

To prevent any gear mix ups I’d also like to suggest that if possible the fletching colour for the gear arrows is kept exclusive for NZLARPS - say the IDV glow in the dark fletching- or there be a very specific banding pattern used on the shafts. I’ve seen red and blue fletching used so far by the people who have IDV arrows and I’ve also taken the precaution of banding mine with gold on the shaft as further identification.

As a side note, if archery is going to be taken up by more people we should have a chart of who has what fletching and banding on their arrows so that after a game if someone realises they’ve picked up another player’s arrows or they get found in the clean up that it will be easy to figure out who they belong to.

#11

I band mine with silver duct tape. And a J. Red fetching.
It isn’t too hard to uniquely identify arrows.

#12

If your really serious about learning the in an outs of archery I’d suggest taking a beginners course at one of the local Archery clubs.
in Auckland you’d have…
http://shorearchery.co.nz/
http://www.aucklandarchery.org.nz
and http://mgac.co.nz/
They’re relatively cheap, gear is supplied, and they’re around 1.5 to 2 hours lessons (usually around 8 of them).
Unfortunately since hunger games and LOTR came out they’re usually booked pretty solid.

Bows, and arrows, are selected to fit the Archer.
A 6 foot plus archer drawing a bow belonging to a 5 foot archer is going to have a good chance of damaging the bow, and at full draw the arrows will pull straight off the rest.
In the reverse the 5 foot archer is going to have arrows 3 or four inches to long, which would make it harder to hit anything, and the bow won’t develop nearly the same power.
With strings you’ll normally see damage develop where the string hits the bracer (arm guard), and more experienced archers hit the bracer less often. The string on the bow I saw at Armageddon seemed to be a modern multi strand. If you keep them well waxed and discard them if a strand breaks you shouldn’t have many problems.

I have no idea what poundage would be suitable, or safe, for a LARP but someone must have a guide.
Maybe reach out to the international community?
Hope this is of use

#13

The international standard for draw weight in larp archery is 30lb at 28". This standard was developed for larp arrows that end in a flat open-cell foam tip. Compared to the round-headed IDV arrows we mostly use now, those arrows have more drag so slow down more in flight, and hit more softly.

We did some safety testing with the round-headed IDV arrows a while back, and my conclusion was that a maximum draw weight of 27lb at 28" was preferable for this type of arrow. This is the draw weight of the IDV bows I sell through Paddywhack.

My writeup of the safety testing we did is here.

Apart from suitable draw weights for bows using these arrows, the main conclusion of that testing is that larp archers need to carefully calibrate how far they draw the bow, depending on the distance to their target. The closer the target is, the less the bow should be drawn in order to have a comfortable impact on the target. The full 28" draw should only be used if the target is at least 20m away. At 10m distance, a maximum of a 17" draw resulted in an acceptable impact. At 5m distance, a maximum of 15" draw was okay.

It takes practice for a larp archer to learn to calibrate their draw length in this way, especially during the heat of combat. It would be nice to have some assurance that any crew and players using bows are able to calibrate their draw length based on distance.

I think real archery might be nice for larp archers to try, so they can learn good technique. Especially traditional archery, which is the most similar to larp archery. However, there are some big differences. In real archery I don’t think there’s the same concern about how hard the target is hit. Draw weight and length of bows is very different, with real traditional bows being longer and having a much heavier draw weight. So anyone doing both would need to be careful with their distance/draw length calibration for larp archery, make sure they have the feel of their larp bow each time before using it.

#14

If the power of the bow is restricted and the arrows are of standard construction and length, which they are, it doesn’t matter about the archers build and draw length.

#15

It’s a very good point about going to an actual archery course to learn bow care and pick up more tips about aiming and general technique. It might even be worth taking a LARP bow and arrow set to a course to see what they have to say about it and how we can improve our safety.

#16

Small question.
Do the bows themselves need to be larp safe?
Assuming not, with a bit of latex paint theses might be worth a try
http://advancedarchery.co.nz/bows/bear-crusader-bow-set
or for those after a bit more "flare"
http://www.archerydirect.co.nz/index.php?route=product/product&path=50_87&product_id=444

Please excuse any dumb comments I currently don’t larp but I hope to be able to help crew in the future.

Cheers

#17

Thanks. The bows we get from Epic Armour is via Paddywhack are all made to international standards.
I talked to archery direct and they do have some nice bows which would suit our needs.

#18

Two safety bits I’ve not seen mentioned here from my time as an archer in a UK LARP…

  1. Arrows must not be parried

  2. Arrows must not be fired at close range if someone charging you down

The reason for both is that the nook (end that is against the string of the bow) can be quite sharp and is the arrow isn’t travelling straight forward it becomes much more dangerous.

Just my 2c. - I am keen to see more bows in LARP :slight_smile:

#19

[quote=“TehFoo”]Small question.
Do the bows themselves need to be larp safe?[/quote]

If you mean covered in foam, then no. You are not supposed to hit people with the bow itself. Fibreglass and wooden bows are usually considered fine. The IDV bows I bring in do have some padding on them near the middle, but are fairly hard towards the ends.

[quote=“TehFoo”]Assuming not, with a bit of latex paint theses might be worth a try
http://advancedarchery.co.nz/bows/bear-crusader-bow-set[/quote]

Yes, at 20lb at 28" these seem perfectly suitable, so long as you’re not looking for range.

[quote=“TehFoo”]or for those after a bit more "flare"
http://www.archerydirect.co.nz/index.php?route=product/product&path=50_87&product_id=444[/quote]

These look like nice wooden bows. They come in 20lb and 30lb draw weights. Unfortunately they don’t specify a draw length for those draw weights. Assuming it is at 28", then the 20lb would be fine (but again, perhaps not great for range). The 30lb might be borderline as it is right on the international maximum, and it’s possible the real draw weight could turn out to be a bit higher than advertised. It might pay for anyone interested in using the 30lb for larp to email the seller and ask them to measure the draw weight at a 28" draw.

I have a bow scale, happy to use it for any bows people have already purchased that they want to check that it’s suitable for larp.

All your comments have been helpful mate, welcome to the community.

#20

I’m happy to do “Archery Drill” at the Wellington based games, or any in Auckland that I’m attending.

my CV/experience:
[ul]
[li]In my past I’ve been a weapon safety officer for games in europe (Gathering etc)[/li]
[li]I was regional under 16 Archery champion when I was a kid[/li]
[li]I’ve played an archer on and off in LARP for 20 years[/li]
[li]I’m teaching the basics to anyone who turns up to the sunday weapon training[/li][/ul]

happy to help

#21

[quote=“8w_gremlin”]I’m happy to do “Archery Drill” at the Wellington based games, or any in Auckland that I’m attending.
happy to help[/quote]

This is great!
Perhaps we could get a group going for people with Archery certs and experience to put together an overview of what should be taught as Larp Archery in the hopes of bringing larp archery into the community safely?

At the very least combining experience is a good thing!